The Bonnies Bandwagon II

thirdrob72
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #30 on Jun 13, 2012, 5:53pm »

The Olean/Allegany area has much to offer, sorry for the NYC/NJ/Boston folks. Sking, snow boarding, sledding at Holiday Valley "the Vail of the East" is only 15 miles away - great family fun. Allegany State Park and the Allegany National Forest are less than one hour away. The SBU Quick cultural and arts center offers excellent dramatic and art presentations. There are very good private and public high schools close by with small class sizes (Walsh, Allegany, Olean). Larger venues are only one and a half hours away in Buffalo - Albright-Knox Galleries, Museum of Science, the Historical Museum, BPO, Burchfield Penny Gallery, Niagara Falls, Sabres and Bills. Excellent fishing and boating activities in the Great Lakes, Finger Lakes, Chaut Lake and Kinzua. ADK is only a day drive away. A dozen very good golf courses, including SBU and Bartlett close by.
No this area has a great deal to offer coaches and their families....it is a super place to raise and educate a family, away from the uberurban clutter and congestion.
It can be a huge selling point for our program and our unique university.

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bigdobber
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #31 on Jun 13, 2012, 6:07pm »

Olean and Allegany are very similar to alot of college towns. The overall economy in Western NY is where your biggest issues are. Population has dropped over the past 50 years and unless there is an economic driver will continue to be the trend. I can remember someone telling me that Olean was suppose to be bigger than Buffalo and is one of the reasons the Franciscans established the university there. If that was true they missed on that one. Can't change the past. I think we did fine last year and the future is bright. Has anyone ever asked departing senior athletes if they ever regretted coming to Bonas? Would love to hear what AN and Cook have to say about their stay considering they both contributed to the success of the program, particularly in the past year.

« Last Edit: Jun 13, 2012, 6:08pm by bigdobber »

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jpschmack
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #32 on Jun 13, 2012, 7:17pm »

Jun 13, 2012, 10:02am, agoo101284 wrote:

SBU's athletics spending will move them closer to second to last in athletics spending than they've ever been before!!!! That's a great reason why this would be a very attractive job, top three for sure.

I think people need to realize that this isn't a slight on the team or the school. The job isn't attractive.

Its not an area that people are beating down the doors to move in to and the budget the coach is given is peanuts compared to the competition (Budget info here: http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-....-budgets.html). Look at who made the top three in the ESPN link, Butler, Xavier, and Temple. Xavier is second in recruiting expenses and men's basketball expenses. Temple is fifth and sixth in those two categories. They also have very recent history of sustained success. Temple also has a location advantage with Philly's high school basketball scene.

Now look at the bottom three in the ESPN link. Fordham has a terrible program and doesn't seem concerned with fixing it. Duquesne also has been awful and had the shooting and all of their good players transferring even when Everhart was starting to turn them around.

All of the things that made folks choose Bona's as their school of choice don't really get factored in to how attractive the coaching job is. Bona's is lucky that they found a guy who would factor in some of those elements and is committed to the program. With the right coach, the program can be a success, there just aren't many out there that qualify for the "right coach" title.

I don't really view this is a slight at all. I view it as a credit to St. Bonaventure.

It's the "second-worst job in the A-10." And have we finished as the second-worst team or worst team in the A-10? Just three times in 18 years, and all three were the scandal/sanction years.

Indiana, Gonzaga, West Virginia, Arkansas, Iowa and Clemson are in pretty remote locations, too.
Northwestern, Denver, Buffalo and UC Irvine are in pretty good locations. And none of them have made the NCAA tournament. Ever.

Every job in the country is what you make of it. And every job in the country is what others have made of it before you.

I do not think it's a fair assessment of "our job" based on what the others before have made it. To me, it's about:

"Can you win there?"
"Is the recruiting pitch you can give better than other schools?"
"How well is the program supported?"

I think due to the fact that we've been to the dance more than Duquesne, LaSalle, Fordham, plus URI, UMass and Charlotte in recent memory, we should be higher than 13 of 14, or 15 of 16.
I think due to the fact that we have better facilities than Duquesne, LaSalle, Fordham and GW, we should be higher than second to last.
I think due to the fact that we have a better game-day atmosphere and crowd than a lot of schools, we should be higher.

So, with the lowest budget, smallest town, and worst location in the league; we have a decent venue, rabid fan base and more success than anyone would expect.

There's more to "support" than money. Money is having the funds to do something. Support is the ability to get something done regardless of your funds available.

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Bona84
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #33 on Jun 13, 2012, 8:47pm »

Jun 13, 2012, 7:17pm, jpschmack wrote:

Jun 13, 2012, 10:02am, agoo101284 wrote:

SBU's athletics spending will move them closer to second to last in athletics spending than they've ever been before!!!! That's a great reason why this would be a very attractive job, top three for sure.

I think people need to realize that this isn't a slight on the team or the school. The job isn't attractive.

Its not an area that people are beating down the doors to move in to and the budget the coach is given is peanuts compared to the competition (Budget info here: http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-....-budgets.html). Look at who made the top three in the ESPN link, Butler, Xavier, and Temple. Xavier is second in recruiting expenses and men's basketball expenses. Temple is fifth and sixth in those two categories. They also have very recent history of sustained success. Temple also has a location advantage with Philly's high school basketball scene.

Now look at the bottom three in the ESPN link. Fordham has a terrible program and doesn't seem concerned with fixing it. Duquesne also has been awful and had the shooting and all of their good players transferring even when Everhart was starting to turn them around.

All of the things that made folks choose Bona's as their school of choice don't really get factored in to how attractive the coaching job is. Bona's is lucky that they found a guy who would factor in some of those elements and is committed to the program. With the right coach, the program can be a success, there just aren't many out there that qualify for the "right coach" title.

I don't really view this is a slight at all. I view it as a credit to St. Bonaventure.

It's the "second-worst job in the A-10." And have we finished as the second-worst team or worst team in the A-10? Just three times in 18 years, and all three were the scandal/sanction years.

Indiana, Gonzaga, West Virginia, Arkansas, Iowa and Clemson are in pretty remote locations, too.
Northwestern, Denver, Buffalo and UC Irvine are in pretty good locations. And none of them have made the NCAA tournament. Ever.

Every job in the country is what you make of it. And every job in the country is what others have made of it before you.

I do not think it's a fair assessment of "our job" based on what the others before have made it. To me, it's about:

"Can you win there?"
"Is the recruiting pitch you can give better than other schools?"
"How well is the program supported?"

I think due to the fact that we've been to the dance more than Duquesne, LaSalle, Fordham, plus URI, UMass and Charlotte in recent memory, we should be higher than 13 of 14, or 15 of 16.
I think due to the fact that we have better facilities than Duquesne, LaSalle, Fordham and GW, we should be higher than second to last.
I think due to the fact that we have a better game-day atmosphere and crowd than a lot of schools, we should be higher.

So, with the lowest budget, smallest town, and worst location in the league; we have a decent venue, rabid fan base and more success than anyone would expect.

There's more to "support" than money. Money is having the funds to do something. Support is the ability to get something done regardless of your funds available.

Good post, jp.

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route16
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #34 on Jun 14, 2012, 12:59am »

Good argument JP, but we have to consider the source. ESPN is a global sports network, and 14 of its employees attempted to rank the best and worst basketball coaching positions in every conference (outside the majors). Many, if not most, have probably never been to St. Bonaventure or have any idea what kind of recruiting pitch the staff makes.

With the sheer volume of programs to be evaluated, it's more likely they focused on tangible data. And the closest they got to measuring "support" might have been total attendance (which we are in the lower half of the league).

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sneakers
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #35 on Jun 14, 2012, 8:04pm »

Jun 13, 2012, 11:17am, route16 wrote:

Lefty, you also spewed some facts about the nice people and the scenery that have no bearing on the point. How can you even show people in Olean are particularly nice, besides just making the generalized point?

It's a bottom three job. And having a bigger budget year after year is more important than one NCAA tournament appearance and one NBA player. Other teams have more than one recent appearance and NBA player.

So how do we increase our budget to compete more effectively? I don't have any knowledge of what you have done in the past as far a donations go, but I hope that all posters complaining about our budget are as generous as they can be to BAF. We need thousands of alum to be as generous as they can be to really compete with these larger schools in our league.

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res
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #36 on Jun 14, 2012, 8:36pm »

Jun 13, 2012, 6:07pm, bigdobber wrote:

I can remember someone telling me that Olean was suppose to be bigger than Buffalo and is one of the reasons the Franciscans established the university there. If that was true they missed on that one.

Maybe the good Fathers hadn't heard of the Erie Canal. I might be mistaken, but I believe that Olean was indeed once bigger than Buffalo. I have read that Olean was actually the single biggest embarkation point for the West in the 1820s to early 1830s, when the West was defined as Ohio, Indiana and Illinois. Alas, the Erie Canal ended all of that long before the Franciscans established St. Bonaventure, though the city fathers of Pittsburgh unsuccessfully lobbied the Federal government to make the Allegheny permanently navigable for shipping all the way to Olean for decades to come.

Olean has a pretty interesting history for a town its size, mostly unknown to non-natives and natives alike.

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jjjacks17
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #37 on Jun 14, 2012, 10:06pm »

Jun 14, 2012, 8:36pm, res wrote:

Jun 13, 2012, 6:07pm, bigdobber wrote:

I can remember someone telling me that Olean was suppose to be bigger than Buffalo and is one of the reasons the Franciscans established the university there. If that was true they missed on that one.

Maybe the good Fathers hadn't heard of the Erie Canal. I might be mistaken, but I believe that Olean was indeed once bigger than Buffalo. I have read that Olean was actually the single biggest embarkation point for the West in the 1820s to early 1830s, when the West was defined as Ohio, Indiana and Illinois. Alas, the Erie Canal ended all of that long before the Franciscans established St. Bonaventure, though the city fathers of Pittsburgh unsuccessfully lobbied the Federal government to make the Allegheny permanently navigable for shipping all the way to Olean for decades to come.

Olean has a pretty interesting history for a town its size, mostly unknown to non-natives and natives alike.

The Erie canal was supposed to come down south through Olean and Pittsburgh to connect to the Mississippi river eventually but before that plan could ever materialize trains were invented and became a much more efficient means of transportation.

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OceanStateBonnie
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #38 on Jun 15, 2012, 9:28am »

SBU is where it is because of the generous donation of the land by Mr. Devereux.

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Support the Bonaventure Athletic Fund today at www.gobonnies.com/donate

jh
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #39 on Jun 16, 2012, 9:05pm »

We are a Franciscan University - we never have and never will base attracting recruits or employess or general students on our better facilities and bigger budgets. We are always forced to 'think out of the box' . It was Eddie Donavon who recognized that Tom STith went to a Francisican HS and used friars to make the connection - what ws our budget and facilities when Timmy Winn came here or David Vanterpool or Essie Hollis?? We win n chemistry and spirit and tradition - things that money cannot buy - do more with less - find a way

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res
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Re: ESPN and A10
« Reply #40 on Jun 17, 2012, 12:18pm »

Jun 16, 2012, 9:05pm, jh wrote:

We are a Franciscan University - we never have and never will base attracting recruits or employess or general students on our better facilities and bigger budgets. We are always forced to 'think out of the box' . It was Eddie Donavon who recognized that Tom STith went to a Francisican HS and used friars to make the connection - what ws our budget and facilities when Timmy Winn came here or David Vanterpool or Essie Hollis?? We win n chemistry and spirit and tradition - things that money cannot buy - do more with less - find a way

Exactly.

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