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Post by fjs64 on Jul 9, 2012 22:30:06 GMT -5
At this point I consider 3 players above all others, Tom Stith, Bob Lanier and Andrew Nicholson. History has already showed us what happened post Stith and post Lanier. I would like to start a discussion on what happened after those era's and hopefully learn from them.
I will start with the Tom Stith era and hopefully others can add facts and stories.
Tom came to St Bonaventure as a Freshman in 1957. In that era Freshman could not play varsity. In his 3 years of eligibility, the Bonnies went 20-3, 21-5 and 24-4 including 2 NITs (when they meant something) and our first NCAA appearance. Tom averaged 18.3, 31.5 & 29.6 ppg. As you are aware, Tom getting TB (as well as his roommate and 2nd leading scorer, Fred Crawford) impacted the end of the season, as we were 21-1 (only loss was to #1 Ohio State in the Holiday Festival, 84-82), before the wheels of illness started to show. Losses to Niagara, Duquesne and an almost loss to Canisius had us all concerned. We were a final 4 team, and possible champion if illness had not hit us. I was a freshman that year, so I got to see the post Stith era.
Eddie Donovan, the coach, took a career opportunity to be coach of the NY Knicks. So a new coach, with all the challenges associated with it, were soon to be seen. We had 4 freshman on schloraship during Tom's senior year. Miles Aiken, John Mahonchak, Bob Ulasewicz and Bob Ford (he flunked out).
The following year under the direction of former player Larry Weise at the helm, we finished 14-7. Larry was given a tough assignment, moving from being a Junior High School coach to coach of the Brown Indians. Although Fred Crawford missed the whole year, the team was led by super soph Mile Aiken, who averaged 23.6 with 11.0 rebounds. Bob McCully (drafted in the 4th round of the NBA), John Mahonchak, Ed Petrovick,Mike Joyce, Tommy Hannon, and team captain Orrie Jirele all contibuted.
As the team opened 6-0, and became ranked in the Top 20, the 8-7 finish was disappointing. Although on the Freshman team we had Mike Rooney (averaging around 36 points) and a very good Bob Barnek, as our only 2 scholarship players. I assume that this was due to Donavan leaving. Expectations were high for next year as Rooney/Barnek would team with the returning Fred Crawford and Miles Aiken. More to follow.
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Post by wgt on Jul 10, 2012 8:38:37 GMT -5
fjs64.....Thanks for sharing your first hand insight on Tom Stith. I hope to read additional comments by those familiar with that period of Bonnies hoops where many in NYC (me included) followed the Bonnies & the Stith Brothers from Bklyn.
Charlie T always tells me how in his senior year Tom complained to him about his lack of energy, strength & stamina. Sadly, the affects of TB were evident for some time before he was finally diagnosed. One can only imagine what kind of spectacular senior year he would have had IF he was not suffering from a grave illness (all at Bona were immediately given Xrays to test for TB after Tom's diagnosis). I have no doubt he would have improved on his phenomenal junior year.
What a ball player & what a Bona man who always made it to Rose Hill to support his beloved Brown & White.
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Post by OceanStateBonnie on Jul 10, 2012 18:22:40 GMT -5
Tom and Sam were both from Harlem, I believe. Only went to schOol in Brooklyn at St. Francis Prep.
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Post by az63 on Jul 10, 2012 22:47:36 GMT -5
Tom and Sam were both from Harlem, I believe. Only went to schOol in Brooklyn at St. Francis Prep. Actually they were born in Virginia and moved to Harlem as young kids. If you ever run into Sam ask him how he got to St. Francis - funny story. |
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Post by wgt on Jul 10, 2012 22:49:11 GMT -5
Tom & Sam were born in Emporia, VA. The family moved to Harlem when Tom was 7. He played for PS 139 & Harlem’s Luck Sevens when Brother Timothy helped in getting Sam & Tom scholarships to St Francis Prep, Bklyn where they won 2 National Championships. Tom was a High School All American in his junior & Senior Years.
At Bona, in 1960 Tom was the #2 scorer in the nation just behind Oscar Robinson. He was a 2 time college All American. Had TB not stricken him in his senior year at Bona there is no telling the NBA records he may have set. His acceptance & battle with TB served as an inspiration to many. As great a ball player as he was his wife Gladys, of 49 years, can attest to how great a man he was, as can his daughters Karin & Lisa.
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Post by az63 on Jul 11, 2012 10:02:08 GMT -5
So a new coach, with all the challenges associated with it, were soon to be seen. The following year under the direction of former player Larry Weise at the helm, we finished 14-7. Larry was given a tough assignment, moving from being a Junior High School coach to coach of the Brown Indians. Weise was hand picked by Donovan because he played at SBU. That was his only qualification. He was not ready to be a head coach at what, in those days, was an elite college team. Also Donovan had a knack for recruiting 1 great player each year, 1 pretty good player and 2 marginal players. If he would have recruited 2 6 & 7th man types instead of the 2 marginals the drop off when he left would not have been as bad. Hiring a JR High coach really hurt. Those of us who were at SBU in those days remember well the problems between super shooter Mike Rooney and Coach Weise. You don't hire a coach to do to on-the-job-training a the highest level!!! Yes, it turned out well when Weise recruited Lanier but if that didn't happen I'm not sure SBU hoops would have ever gotten back to Donovan/Stith/Crawford days. |
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Post by thirdrob72 on Jul 11, 2012 12:04:17 GMT -5
Speaking of franchise players I wish we could locate George Carter ' 67, he will be inducted this year into the Greater Buffalo Sports Hall of Fame.
Any hits yet guys?
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Post by fjs64 on Jul 11, 2012 13:07:48 GMT -5
My Junior year (1962/63) we were dreaming of a Top 3 ranking. Fred Crawford was returning from TB, super soph scoring machine Mike Rooney, teaming with Mile Aiken, John Mahonchak, Mike Joyce, Barry Herbert, and Bob Barnek.
The year proved to be a disaster. A 12-11 record plus 1-1 in the post season (NCIT - National Catholic Invitational Tournamet.....I guess you could say it was similar to todays CBI and CIT). Why was it so bad? In a nutshell, injuries, team chemistry and depth. Miles Aiken missed a good portion of the year, Rooney did not get along with the Coach and with some of the other players. For depth Art Wood & Pat Monaghan who were Freshman the year before were on the team. Sometime during the season, intramural players, Brian McRedmond, Tim Hudson and Tom Nientemp (and maybe Jim Breslin) were added to the team. All of this was not a formula for success.
The freshman team had Roger Bauer (a smooth shooting guard from New Jersey), John Riley (a point guard), and John Alach (sorry to say I don't remember much about him). Two years in a row of Freshman without height, which would be an impact down the road.
Fred Crawford had a terrific season although he had a variation of the "joba" rules in place....5 minutes on, 5 minutes off as he continued to recover. These restrictions went away at some point in the schedule. He averaged just under 20 ppg and 8.8 rpg.
Miles Aiken had so many injuries (knee and broken finger). I don't know how many games he played, but his Junior & Senior year he played a total of 23 games. If injuries had not hit him he would have been one of our greatest players.
Also Bob Barnek had mono and missed a part of the season (don't remember if it was this year or the next).
Another point was the coaching staff. We had 2 coaches, Larry Weise and assistant Fred Handler. Fred was not only the assistant, but he thought classes, and was the head baseball coach. Certainly not like today.
What we believed would happen, never did. Winter in Olean was bleak as we kept on expecting wins, and losses kept piling up. So did the snow. Next, the 63/64 season.
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Post by az63 on Jul 11, 2012 14:00:56 GMT -5
My Junior year (1962/63) we were dreaming of a Top 3 ranking. Fred Crawford was returning from TB, super soph scoring machine Mike Rooney, teaming with Mile Aiken, John Mahonchak, Mike Joyce, Barry Herbert, and Bob Barnek. Herbert, Mahonchak, Barnek, Rooney and Joyce contributed 46 points per game in '62/'63 season. Fred 20 and Miles 23 (but only played 10 games) respectively. So even with the 5 other guys only averaging 9/game and chemistry/coaching issues not withstanding, if Miles was healthy (and Fred fully recovered) it could have been a very good year. |
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Post by sony on Jul 11, 2012 14:07:18 GMT -5
FJS - good to see you mention Pat "Fats" Monaghan. His brother Danny ("Mons") and I arrived as frosh in Sept. '67 and eventually became roomates. I learned a great deal about Miles and the "Greek" and those others from them. Fats has a very successful insurance business in the Rochester area. Mons and I destroyed copiuos amoumts of grey matter, both in the Enchated Mountains and back in the Bronx!
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Post by thirdrob72 on Jul 12, 2012 9:23:18 GMT -5
So Mike Rooney and Coach Weise did not get along? I have heard much of the legendary Rooney but never really learned why he did not become a superstar.
I do know that when I arrived on Third Rob as a frosh in Sept '68, that the upper classmen would tell incredible stories about Miles and how high he could jump....something like a precursor to Matt Gantt. One urban tale (which frosh of course believed) was that Miles could take a dime off the top of backboard with his elbow....wow were we impressed. Such are the legends passed down to incoming classes at Old Bonas.
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Post by az63 on Jul 12, 2012 11:42:39 GMT -5
So Mike Rooney and Coach Weise did not get along? I have heard much of the legendary Rooney but never really learned why he did not become a superstar. His problem was between the ears. He had 60+ one night as a Frosh SG. He also didn't suit up and sat in the stands one game during his Soph. year in the Buffalo Aud. Transferred to Oklahoma but didn't do much. |
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Post by firstdev on Jul 13, 2012 13:37:15 GMT -5
Wow 60 plus, that sounds like Calvin Murphy style points, amazing. Hopefully that was against Canisius or Niagara - so good for Little Three bragging rights.
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Post by fjs64 on Jul 13, 2012 21:09:55 GMT -5
Wow 60 plus, that sounds like Calvin Murphy style points, amazing. Hopefully that was against Canisius or Niagara - so good for Little Three bragging rights. If my memory serves me correctly, it was 56 points vs Niagara. No guarantee on that, its been 50 years. |
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Post by az63 on Jul 13, 2012 21:40:11 GMT -5
Wow 60 plus, that sounds like Calvin Murphy style points, amazing. Hopefully that was against Canisius or Niagara - so good for Little Three bragging rights. If my memory serves me correctly, it was 56 points vs Niagara. No guarantee on that, its been 50 years. fjs - my memory might be skewed due to the fact that we drank dinner at the Brown Bear prior to the game but the #61 or 63 is rattling around in this 70 yr old head. Also found this on the net - jedseyjournal.com/1101/ Just scroll down about 2/3 of the way for a current (?) picture of Rooney. |
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