|
Post by kcSBU03 on May 28, 2014 12:14:04 GMT -5
Last I checked, we do recruit athletes and students outside of NYS
|
|
|
Post by Pinnum on May 28, 2014 12:16:11 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Pinnum on May 28, 2014 12:18:23 GMT -5
Last I checked, we do recruit athletes and students outside of NYS Yes, that is correct. And that is vital to the success of SBU. I have just used those figures for expediency rather than doing an analysis of the SBU recruiting locations since many of the other Lax schools share the same recruiting areas.
|
|
|
Post by Bona84 on May 28, 2014 12:41:06 GMT -5
What do you mean by 'the sport has the potential to spice things up a little in our athletics program'? If you want to standout in a community (sport) you need to be a perennial power, have a large spectator base that gives great home attendance, or have a very high ratio so there are a lot of athletes that want the opportunity and will consider your school simply because it is one of a few options for the program. As in the last of the examples, a program like Rifle would make a lot of sense for a rural school like SBU to attract people to the Enchanted Mountains. It's a fun sport to watch, that might bring new students and a little new excitement to the athletics program. Just an opinion that I assume you will dispute. Otherwise, use whatever definition for spice that you'd like. As for a program like Rifle, maybe that deserves its own thread.
|
|
|
Post by Pinnum on May 28, 2014 13:02:04 GMT -5
What do you mean by 'the sport has the potential to spice things up a little in our athletics program'? If you want to standout in a community (sport) you need to be a perennial power, have a large spectator base that gives great home attendance, or have a very high ratio so there are a lot of athletes that want the opportunity and will consider your school simply because it is one of a few options for the program. As in the last of the examples, a program like Rifle would make a lot of sense for a rural school like SBU to attract people to the Enchanted Mountains. It's a fun sport to watch, that might bring new students and a little new excitement to the athletics program. Just an opinion that I assume you will dispute. Otherwise, use whatever definition for spice that you'd like. As for a program like Rifle, maybe that deserves its own thread. Nothing to dispute. Everything you just said is true. It would likely bring some excitement when the announcement of the new program was made and it would likely attract some students to SBU that otherwise wouldn't look at the school. There are also people that would really enjoy watching the games, even in the cold. I don't have an issue with Lax; it is a great game. Removing any personal feelings about the sport and looking at it objectively, I just do not see how the drain on resources that it would bring could be beneficial to the athletic program. After the initial excitement of adding the sport, I don't see the Lax crowd substantially more excited for SBU Lax than the baseball and soccer crowd is for SBU's baseball and soccer programs. I don't see the program drawing more than 500 fans a game which is what Hobart and Siena each average for home games and I doubt there would be a demand for paid tickets to McGraw-Jennings.
|
|
|
Post by bva on May 28, 2014 23:02:19 GMT -5
I recently attended a Marquette Lax game (second year of their program). While my wife and I enjoyed the game, most of the fans were parents/relatives of the players and youth lax kids/families (about 300-500 total fans). The problem for SBU is twofold: 1) the surrounding area is not large enough to support attendance and 2) the financial committment is too large for SBU to support. The Marquette program allocates 25 full scholarships (the NCAA maximum) to be divvied up among 45 players, in addition to a well-paid coaching staff of three. The SBU womens program already competes at a disadvantage with only about 17 players compared to rosters of 25-30 for its opponents. Why would SBU want to field a men's team that would likely have similar resuts as the women, while taking away funds from other sports or incurring a larger financial drain on the athletic program/university?
|
|
|
Post by bva on May 28, 2014 23:06:05 GMT -5
I recently attended a Marquette Lax game (second year of their program). While my wife and I enjoyed the game, most of the fans were parents/relatives of the players and youth lax kids/families (about 300-500 total fans). The problem for SBU is twofold: 1) the surrounding area is not large enough to support attendance and 2) the financial committment is too large for SBU to support. The Marquette program allocates 25 full scholarships (the NCAA maximum) to be divvied up among 45 players, in addition to a well-paid coaching staff of three. The SBU womens program already competes at a disadvantage with only about 17 players compared to rosters of 25-30 for its opponents. Why would SBU want to field a men's team that would likely have similar resuts as the women, while taking away funds from other sports or incurring a larger financial drain on the athletic program/university?
|
|
|
Post by bbb on May 29, 2014 2:48:38 GMT -5
What do you mean by 'the sport has the potential to spice things up a little in our athletics program'? If you want to standout in a community (sport) you need to be a perennial power, have a large spectator base that gives great home attendance, or have a very high ratio so there are a lot of athletes that want the opportunity and will consider your school simply because it is one of a few options for the program. As in the last of the examples, a program like Rifle would make a lot of sense for a rural school like SBU to attract people to the Enchanted Mountains. It's a fun sport to watch, that might bring new students and a little new excitement to the athletics program. Just an opinion that I assume you will dispute. Otherwise, use whatever definition for spice that you'd like. As for a program like Rifle, maybe that deserves its own thread. You know it's deep into the offseason when the annual rifle team threads come out.
|
|
|
Post by 5and23 on May 29, 2014 7:16:06 GMT -5
Bona's had some sort of men's lacrosse team in the early '90s. Not D1, but it was a funded program of some sort. SBU finances were at that time an absolute mess, and the athletic department pulled the plug on the program -- rather abruptly, if memory serves.
I like the idea of bringing it back, but the reality of another non-revenue sport seems a bit impractical. Our little school is doing amazing things athletics-wise while walking a financial tightrope. I'd like to see our administrators keep their focus on managing what we do already rather than adding expense and complexity ...
|
|
|
Post by class70 on May 29, 2014 7:43:35 GMT -5
Please guys, don't do this to me. I know I'm an old man, but I have never cared about lacrosse and don't know anyone who does. Our men's basketball program is battling against programs that are far better funded and we can't afford to waste a million dollars a year on a non-revenue producing sport. I think when I was teaching at SU they had one of the best lacrosse teams in the nation, maybe the best. Nobody cared. It was men's football and men's basketball that put butts in the seats.
|
|
|
Post by Bona84 on May 29, 2014 8:04:36 GMT -5
I recently attended a Marquette Lax game (second year of their program). While my wife and I enjoyed the game, most of the fans were parents/relatives of the players and youth lax kids/families (about 300-500 total fans). The problem for SBU is twofold: 1) the surrounding area is not large enough to support attendance and 2) the financial committment is too large for SBU to support. The Marquette program allocates 25 full scholarships (the NCAA maximum) to be divvied up among 45 players, in addition to a well-paid coaching staff of three. The SBU womens program already competes at a disadvantage with only about 17 players compared to rosters of 25-30 for its opponents. Why would SBU want to field a men's team that would likely have similar resuts as the women, while taking away funds from other sports or incurring a larger financial drain on the athletic program/university? Other than basketball, what sports does Bona's field with the expectation to make money from attendance? You may be correct that lacrosse would end up being a financial drain, but I wouldn't automatically make that assumption. Let's say Bona's does attract 45 student athletes that otherwise would not attend Bona's. It is my understanding that the limit on lacrosse scholarships is 12.6 (not sure how Marquette provides 25). If those 45 students on average paid half the cost of attendance it would be an estimated $900,000 (45 X approx. $20,000) in revenue. I realize that is a big assumption on my part, and there are certainly other factors to consider, but I wouldn't just dismiss the idea of adding lacrosse because we think it will automatically be a financial disaster. Or, perhaps we should add a rifle team. That may only cost 3.6 scholarships, and could be coed.
|
|
|
Post by Pinnum on May 29, 2014 8:32:42 GMT -5
I recently attended a Marquette Lax game (second year of their program). While my wife and I enjoyed the game, most of the fans were parents/relatives of the players and youth lax kids/families (about 300-500 total fans). The problem for SBU is twofold: 1) the surrounding area is not large enough to support attendance and 2) the financial committment is too large for SBU to support. The Marquette program allocates 25 full scholarships (the NCAA maximum) to be divvied up among 45 players, in addition to a well-paid coaching staff of three. The SBU womens program already competes at a disadvantage with only about 17 players compared to rosters of 25-30 for its opponents. Why would SBU want to field a men's team that would likely have similar resuts as the women, while taking away funds from other sports or incurring a larger financial drain on the athletic program/university? Other than basketball, what sports does Bona's field with the expectation to make money from attendance? You may be correct that lacrosse would end up being a financial drain, but I wouldn't automatically make that assumption. Let's say Bona's does attract 45 student athletes that otherwise would not attend Bona's. It is my understanding that the limit on lacrosse scholarships is 12.6 (not sure how Marquette provides 25). If those 45 students on average paid half the cost of attendance it would be an estimated $900,000 (45 X approx. $20,000) in revenue. I realize that is a big assumption on my part, and there are certainly other factors to consider, but I wouldn't just dismiss the idea of adding lacrosse because we think it will automatically be a financial disaster. Or, perhaps we should add a rifle team. That may only cost 3.6 scholarships, and could be coed. At best, what you propose would be neutral in the financial impact. But that is HIGHLY unlikely if the program is fully funded--or even half funded. Why would the school go through all that trouble to add a sport that would not provide more resources to the school but require more administration efforts and further academic accommodations? 95% of SBU students receive financial aid. Your assumptions seem to be substantially off since very few students pay the full cost of attendance. Thus, it is likely that your 45 x $20,000 revenue figure would be more likely 45 x $10,000 which would likely amount to a loss. In fact, I am confident it would be a negative impact. I wouldn't go anywhere near adding any new sports, unless there were an endowment established in the $10M range and even then it would be hard for me not to recommend another sport be cut to accommodate the addition (assuming the A10 will soon sponsor the sport and pull a few associate members in). Rather than add a new sport that there are plenty of options for kids to go to and compete, why not hire one or two more dedicated admissions counselors to be on the road visiting high schools and drawing students to the school? The financial outlays are a lot less and the pool of students is much greater. Additionally, they would generate more revenue for the school.
|
|
|
Post by Bona84 on May 29, 2014 9:11:51 GMT -5
So, you're saying that on average those students would only pay $10,000 out of the approximate $40,000 cost of attendance?
Listen, I'm not really advocating for lacrosse to be added. I'm just saying that it shouldn't automatically be dismissed due to the assumption that it will be a financial drain, or because the school won't make money on ticket sales, or because somebody doesn't like or care about the sport. There are people that care about the non-revenue sports, otherwise the money wouldn't have been raised to build the turf fields, and students wouldn't be coming to Bona's to play and compete in such sports.
|
|
|
Post by kcSBU03 on May 29, 2014 9:21:01 GMT -5
Its funny how pinnum is willing to take it in the rear playing a wasted game in Buffalo but nixes the Lax idea because of its minimal or break even financial impact. He cites marketing in Buffalo and the golden opportunity to draw student when a Lax program can do the same thing in a sense.
|
|
|
Post by Pinnum on May 29, 2014 9:45:14 GMT -5
So, you're saying that on average those students would only pay $10,000 out of the approximate $40,000 cost of attendance? Listen, I'm not really advocating for lacrosse to be added. I'm just saying that it shouldn't automatically be dismissed due to the assumption that it will be a financial drain, or because the school won't make money on ticket sales, or because somebody doesn't like or care about the sport. There are people that care about the non-revenue sports, otherwise the money wouldn't have been raised to build the turf fields, and students wouldn't be coming to Bona's to play and compete in such sports. No, I am saying that the total roster, when given 12 scholarship waivers, would amount to each athlete paying about 10k. I am a HUGE advocate of non-revenue sports so don't misunderstand me. I would love to be able to offer an athletics offering like new A10 member Davidson who is also a small school but there is a HUGE difference between their $560M endowment and SBU's $55M endowment. When you have ten times the financial reserves, you have a lot more flexibility in your program offerings. Rather than adding more sports, we should be striving to improve the current athletic offerings. There is no reason to think SBU can compete in MLax when WLax, Softball, Baseball, and Mens/Women's Soccer regularly sit with losing records and in the bottom half of the A10. The efforts to expand the number of athletic donors is great. It is crazy how limited the donor pool has been. If any of you are interested in taking a look: gobonnies.sbu.edu/fan_zone/Donors_list One of the most interesting things, to me, is that people would like more scholarship sports added when there are so many more scholarships that can be added to the current teams. Take a look at the number of people that are listed under 'Athletics Scholarship Donors'.
|
|