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Post by class70 on Jul 11, 2014 9:21:59 GMT -5
Adding a Petroleum Engineering program is actually secondary to my higher priority, which is to encourage study and debate of how SW New York can reverse its economic decline. How great would it be to hear a professor from SBU testifying in the NY Legislature about the possibility of creating a mini-Texas where the NY tax and regulatory regime is suspended and an economic laboratory is created to do exactly the same things that have proven successful elsewhere! I'm not a petroleum engineer. Other than investing in energy about all I know about that field is that it has been consistently at the top of the list for starting salaries for college grads. There doesn't seem to be that much course overlap with other engineering fields. One of the top ten programs is Texas Tech's and you can see the curriculum here: www.depts.ttu.edu/pe/undergrad/curriculum.phpI note that it's called the Bob L. Herd Department of Petroleum Engineering. Someone needs to get on a plane and go talk to people like Harold Hamm of Continental Resources. You may not get an endowment, but I'll bet you'd see donations that would pay many times for the effort if we get serious about going in this direction. Edit: I wrote that suggestion about Harold Hamm before even checking out his donations. I was reassured when I did to see this: blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/09/24/harold-hamm-makes-big-gift-to-university-of-north-dakota/ |
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Post by sbu6507 on Jul 11, 2014 9:28:28 GMT -5
Not sure where the repeated bashing of Sports Management on this board is coming from. I have a Masters in it (not from SBU) and am currently employed by one of the "Big 4" North American Sports Leagues, so it probably hasn't been a total waste of time. Many of my colleagues also have graduate or undergraduate degrees from a Sports Management related program (including several from Canisius) and virtually all of my classmates from my Masters program are working in the Sports industry across a wide range of disciplines. The two best Sports Management programs in the country are at Ohio University and UMASS. They are major programs for each University that have alumni in numerous senior management positions across the industry. SBU's program is actually called "Sports Studies" which probably has too broad of a focus. If I am a prospective student looking to get into the business side of the Sports industry then I am likely not going to be interested in a program that dedicates so much time to areas like Sports Medicine and Sociology. Bottom line is, despite what some on this board think, Sports Management continues to be an attractive field for prospective students and doing away with it all together would likely prove to be unwise. Instead the University would be wise to look for ways to improve the current program in order to offer at least two areas of focus (One for Business, One for Sports Medicine) so that students are not forced to spend half their time in courses that will have no impact on their career moving forward. Undergraduate programs should be more broad while graduate studies are intended to be focused. Your situation with a graduate degree does not apply. Sports is merely a subset for the entertainment industry and I would much rather hire a grad with more diverse skills that hasn't pigeon holed themselves. You show me some who has studied marketing and understands marketing well and they can quickly pick up how to adapt their skills to market ticket sales or lead initiatives that provide a good ROI for sponsors just as I would expect them to be able to adapt their skills to other industries. However, you give me a sports management undergrad and I am likely to see what other resumes are in the pile since I want someone who has a broader knowledge base. I could go on with examples but in my experience with many sports organizations is that the undergraduate degree is not very well respected. The fact that there are undergrads with these degrees working in the industry is not a testament to the degree but rather a numbers game since most of these people are solely focused on the industry so they apply for a lot of the openings. Some of them are bound to get hired. But I still have hired Sports Management undergrads. The most recent hire was my office secretary and he did a pretty good job too! Demean it all you want but the fact remains that many prospective students remain interested in this field and when it comes down to it, isn't that really the point? You have a hiring preference that looks negatively on Sports Management majors and that is fine but I am not sure that is a valid reason for casting aside a potentially profitable program for the University. For the record, I have no idea whether this program is indeed profitable for SBU, but I have already made clear that I don't they are putting their best foot forward here. I understand that undergraduate programs are meant to be broad but how are Kinesiology courses at all relevant to someone pursuing a career in Sports Business? |
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Post by derhut on Jul 11, 2014 9:29:44 GMT -5
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Post by Pinnum on Jul 11, 2014 9:32:44 GMT -5
Adding a Petroleum Engineering program is actually secondary to my higher priority, which is to encourage study and debate of how SW New York can reverse its economic decline. How great would it be to hear a professor from SBU testifying in the NY Legislature about the possibility of creating a mini-Texas where the NY tax and regulatory regime is suspended and an economic laboratory is created to do exactly the same things that have proven successful elsewhere! I'm not a petroleum engineer. Other than investing in energy about all I know about that field is that it has been consistently at the top of the list for starting salaries for college grads. There doesn't seem to be that much course overlap with other engineering fields. One of the top ten programs is Texas Tech's and you can see the curriculum here: www.depts.ttu.edu/pe/undergrad/curriculum.phpI note that it's called the Bob L. Herd Department of Petroleum Engineering. Someone needs to get on a plane and go talk to people like Harold Hamm of Continental Resources. You may not get an endowment, but I'll bet you'd see donations that would pay many times for the effort if we get serious about going in this direction. Edit: I wrote that suggestion about Harold Hamm before even checking out his donations. I was reassured when I did to see this: blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/09/24/harold-hamm-makes-big-gift-to-university-of-north-dakota/The course numbers tell you the overlap. The courses that start with ME are Mechanical Engineering courses and the CE are Civil Engineering courses which are the two biggest overlaps I mentioned previously. |
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Post by ceharv on Jul 11, 2014 9:37:15 GMT -5
I may be beating a dead horse, but I've been suggesting for years Bonas needs to recruit more aggressively in Pittsburgh/western PA, where there are still many catholic schools - some reputedly just getting by, but getting by nonetheless. I've suspected, but never confirmed, that we've not done so because we do not want to ruin the long-standing friendly relationship we have always had with Duquesne. I've also suggested that aggressive recruiting really needs to involve nothing more than just letting people around here know that this beautiful campus is just a 3 to 4 hour drive from Pittsburgh - 4-lane highway almost all the way. And the target would be the many WPA. catholic families in which the decision has already been made that a kid will go-away to college anyway, and where the choice is one of the DC- or Philly-area schools, and where the much closer Bonas is not even considered because no one really knows where it is and that it is so close. Informally, I've discovered that many around here think SBU is "way up there" in northern NY, or somewhere that the 6-7 hour trip to Philly is much closer. Crazy, but it's really true.
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Post by Pinnum on Jul 11, 2014 9:39:32 GMT -5
Undergraduate programs should be more broad while graduate studies are intended to be focused. Your situation with a graduate degree does not apply. Sports is merely a subset for the entertainment industry and I would much rather hire a grad with more diverse skills that hasn't pigeon holed themselves. You show me some who has studied marketing and understands marketing well and they can quickly pick up how to adapt their skills to market ticket sales or lead initiatives that provide a good ROI for sponsors just as I would expect them to be able to adapt their skills to other industries. However, you give me a sports management undergrad and I am likely to see what other resumes are in the pile since I want someone who has a broader knowledge base. I could go on with examples but in my experience with many sports organizations is that the undergraduate degree is not very well respected. The fact that there are undergrads with these degrees working in the industry is not a testament to the degree but rather a numbers game since most of these people are solely focused on the industry so they apply for a lot of the openings. Some of them are bound to get hired. But I still have hired Sports Management undergrads. The most recent hire was my office secretary and he did a pretty good job too! Demean it all you want but the fact remains that many prospective students remain interested in this field and when it comes down to it, isn't that really the point? You have a hiring preference that looks negatively on Sports Management majors and that is fine but I am not sure that is a valid reason for casting aside a potentially profitable program for the University. For the record, I have no idea whether this program is indeed profitable for SBU, but I have already made clear that I don't they are putting their best foot forward here. I understand that undergraduate programs are meant to be broad but how are Kinesiology courses at all relevant to someone pursuing a career in Sports Business? I agree that the sports studies program is not a good one. But if I had to guess, I would think it was designed as a marketing tool to be everything to everyone. It isn't Sports Management and it isn't Sports Science. I have no problems with a minor in Sports Management of Sports Studies but I would rather have other skills developed. There is enough training evolved with any new hire but I would rather have someone that already has some skills that are needed that can learn the sports centric skills on the job than trying to teach them how to run SQL quarries, do basic HTML programing, use Photoshop or any of the other skills that are utilized in the industry. Sports management is more of an executive level discipline and the industry requires skills to compete tasks necessary to an organization. |
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Post by sbu6507 on Jul 11, 2014 9:51:15 GMT -5
You are right, my 15 minutes of fame may have been too harsh. I was basing my statement on the collapse of several sports leagues (NFL Europe, Arena Football, etc) that the # of jobs was decreasing as more schools added this program. Also the few folks I know with this major (none from SBU) could not break into the field, and work in other areas. So I was looking at the future job growth. Maybe it si better than I thought. It is a tough field to break into, without a doubt, and yes the list of failed sports properties continues to expand. But the entrenched North American Sports leagues along with foreign behemoth's like the English Premier League and German Bundesliga not to mention NCAA Football (and the athletics departments it supports) are only going to continue to grow. You only have to look a little ways to the North the find one great example. Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment is one of the most profitable sports ventures in the world. The Leafs and Raptors fill the Air Canada Centre for 82 home dates in total (not including playoffs) and they command immense local (and national in the case of the Raptors as they are Canada's only team) TV rights deals. I was in their offices for meetings just a few weeks ago, and while I have no idea how many folks they employ full time I can tell you that they have several floors in an office tower connected to the Arena. As I am thinking about this more, perhaps the answer is folding the business portion of the Sports Studies program into the school of Business and creating some sort of dual major program or Business degree with a focus on Sports Management that offers students a good background in the business of sports while allowing them to pair it with one of the other business majors that we all (except for Firstdev) love. |
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Post by Pinnum on Jul 11, 2014 9:56:10 GMT -5
As I am thinking about this more, perhaps the answer is folding the business portion of the Sports Studies program into the school of Business and creating some sort of dual major program or Business degree with a focus on Sports Management that offers students a good background in the business of sports while allowing them to pair it with one of the other business majors that we all (except for Firstdev) love. Business Major with a concentration in sports management would be a great move... Much better than a sports management degree, in my opinion. |
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pbd76
Junior Member
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Post by pbd76 on Jul 11, 2014 9:57:13 GMT -5
Healthcare fields = nursing, physicians asst, etc. Fields related to senior care so there is someone to take of us old geezers in a few years.
Computers = but more in the areas of gaming, app development etc. robotics?
Develop a program to build a pipeline from some of the better community colleges. Something along the lines of automatic acceptance at a certain GPA. Community colleges are bursting at the seams because students are taking that route to save on tuition dollars. SUNY probably already has something similar, but having a private, Catholic option may appeal to some.
And no law school!
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Post by Pinnum on Jul 11, 2014 10:22:43 GMT -5
Computers = but more in the areas of gaming, app development etc. robotics? Those sound like buzzwords to attract kids. The problem is that many kids don't know about courses of study necessary for the career paths. I hate to beat a drum on sports management so I will change course. It is like the kids who like video games and think they want to develop video games. What many of these kids don't know is that math is a HUGE portion of their development and that they will be spending a lot of time writing code. The problem is that kids are disconnected between what skills are really needed and what they think they need. All too often the parents don't have any more information. That is why there are so many Criminal Justice grads who thought they would become police officers and are upset with all the police officers that never studied criminal justice that were accepted to the academy. Computer Science is a very broad major and it only gives the basic tools for the industry. There will be a lot of kids that leave the program because they 'didn't sign up to just take math courses or write code all day' while those skills are necessary for what they claim they want to do. It is like the kid that loves wood shop and in Chemistry class says 'when am I ever going to use this' and then years later needs to know all about it to determine the mixes of lacquers in their wood shop. |
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Post by brownindian11 on Jul 11, 2014 11:22:33 GMT -5
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Friar
Junior Member
Posts: 309
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Post by Friar on Jul 11, 2014 12:01:29 GMT -5
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Post by Pinnum on Jul 11, 2014 12:18:53 GMT -5
Think of any computer science concentration and an area of engineering. All engineering is built on a foundation of math and science. Some students enter college with the basic foundation of math and science which allows them to focus on the discipline more directly while most need to take more math and sciences before focusing on courses specific to one field of engineering. Computer Science and all of these focuses mentioned, on the other hand, require the basic development first. Some kids may enter with a little big of programing knowledge or may have some understanding of computer systems but they do not have the breadth that is necessary to develop the expertise in one of these areas of focus. A lot of the specializing for these specific jobs comes in the way of on the job training and certifications which develops a specific knowledge and skillset. If you want to work in white collar crimes or work in financial forensic investigation you need to have the skills that are wanted on Wall Street. The easiest way to have these skills is to work on Wall Street. What will get you the most consideration? Double major in Computer Science and one of the following: Economics, Finance, Accounting, or Mathematics. The same is true with Homeland Security. You want to work for DHS? The easiest way in is to be a contractor first and this means having the skills that are in demand and being developed by tech firms. They will then hire you for your industry experience. Again, the easiest way in is a degree in Computer Science plus experience in the field. People often forget that education is not done when you leave college. You have to keep learning and growing and you should only look for college to give you the skills needed for an entry level position. But don't make up trendy names for degrees in an effort to market them. |
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Post by Jimmy Chitwood on Jul 11, 2014 12:33:13 GMT -5
Consider scrapping Sociology and creating a 5 year Master of Social Work program (MSW) . An MSW program aligns well with Franciscan principles. The need is huge and students would have little difficulty finding a job upon graduation. A 4 year BSW program would be an option for those who do not want to complete the MSW.
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Post by Pinnum on Jul 11, 2014 12:40:29 GMT -5
Consider scrapping Sociology and creating a 5 year Master of Social Work program (MSW) . An MSW program aligns well with Franciscan principles. The need is huge and students would have little difficulty finding a job upon graduation. A 4 year BSW program would be an option for those who do not want to complete the MSW. I have three friends with MSW and two of them got them at state flagships due to the inexpensive tuition vs their anticipated career earnings. The other got it at Fordham but specialized in Global Services and has spent all of her time working out of the country. I agree that it would be a good fit with the values but the cost of administering a program may be prohibitive. I just don't know enough about it to say one way or the other. |
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