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Post by tastylicks on Sept 12, 2014 13:50:24 GMT -5
I live in between rochester and buffalo. I could be a great potential season ticket holder at the RC as a local alum that loves the Bonnies and has no issue driving an hour/ hour and a half to see them. And I have considered it actually.There are undoubtedly Lots of people just like me with the alumni base SBU has in ROC and Buffalo. Just 3 years ago you could get a season ticket for roughly $150 and as a new season ticket holder they offered a promotion to get a second for $50. That was a great plan because nobody buys just 1. $200 for two season ticket holders and they honestly probably have us hooked for 20 years after that even without the promotion the following year. Then they made many changes, they outsourced a lot of the season ticket process, it's $165 for just 1 bare minimum seat (without a BAF donation) this puts you in the seats above the rafters, no discount for a second ticket or for new ticket holders. AND now they move a popular traditional home game out AND they move a league home game out too. (both of which are closer to these potential customer bases) Hmm lets see - maybe I will stay at home, attend the 2 attractive games in my backyard and maybe just go to one or two games at the RC instead of buying season tickets..... What I am getting at is that they are making it too easy for Buffalo and Rochester fans and alumni like myself to not buy season tickets. And there are a lot of us. I sure hope they don't wonder why season ticket sales aren't increasing. And what about the actual season ticket holders in the Olean area as well? Problem is... you didn't buy the season tickets. Almost... that is worthless. I actually almost bought Google stock in 2005. Also, worthless. There are a lot of people that could but don't. Until people act it means nothing. SBU is making decisions in an attempt to entice people to act. That's exactly my point. They aren't making decisions to entice people to act. They are doing the opposite and making it too easy for them to stay home.
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Post by 123Rob on Sept 12, 2014 14:18:48 GMT -5
Great points as usual Pinnum. Your points are put more eloquently and backed by quantifiable facts but is basically the same argument that I was trying to make some months back about Bona's needing to add men's lax. I believe it is the most efficient way to grow interest in the SBU athletic department as a whole. By extension, grow interest in that program, grow interest in the school to a whole new generation of potential students. It also makes the athletic department more valuable to the A10 and not completely reliant on basketball.
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Post by jh on Sept 12, 2014 17:45:12 GMT -5
playing niagara or george mason outside of the RC increases Bonaventure's value to the A10? That's a strange take. Let's say there are 4,000 people that are die hard Bonnies fans in Olean. There are also 2,000 die hard Bonnies fans in Buffalo and 2,000 in Rochester. There are also 3,000 casual Bonnies fans in Olean, 5,000 in Buffalo and 5,000 in Rochester. Using these metrics, at any one site, RC, BCA, FNC, there will probably be 5k fans in attendance. So, for the Bonnies the games are interchangeable it doesn't really matter where they play. You add in the cost to host off campus and the RC may be the best place to play when taking this micro view. So when the Bonnies play a conference road game on TV they are currently attracting the attention of roughly 20k viewers. This is a metric that the A10 member schools care about because this is a number television networks and advertisers care about. However, the Olean Market is saturated and won't really see any growth in fans following. While the Rochester market has a lot of basketball fans that don't get to see college basketball live and if there is high level basketball it will just draw even more. The key is growing the pie. The Bonnies need a larger fan base of people that are willing to tune in when the Bonnies are on television. There is already a very faithful SBU following from the proud alumni and I believe this can rub off on others and grow the number of potential watchers. It isn't unrealistic to think the number of casual SBU fans in Buffalo or Rochester could double in the next few years with the games played there and the added exposure of the conference. 50k viewers is the minimum needed to attract the interest of major networks like ESPN2, ESPNU, FS1 for a non-peak game time or to be high demand for a Regional Sports Network. Pinnum I get what you are saying regarding growing the pie - but honesltly Buffalo and Rochester and Nia falls people have known St Bonas for 50 years. They will tune their tv sets increasing those rating when St Bonas goes to NCAA's in back to back years - the following will be there. Take Andrew's senior season - only time anyone knew it was an NCAA season was the last game of the tournament so you did not have tv ratings all year long. If however Andrew and Bonnies made NCAA his junior season - many would have tuned in his senior season The same thing happened with Tim Winn - he only made it his last season. People will watch and tune into a "known winner" - and Rochester/Buffalo/Niagara falls is a good sized tv market to make A10 happy - just win !!!
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Post by Cassian on Sept 12, 2014 18:15:22 GMT -5
Having a D1 Lax team is/has always been a great idea - and something we need to do.
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Post by ceharv on Sept 12, 2014 19:28:01 GMT -5
Tasty - and maybe some casual fan in Roch decides to take in the game there, really likes the product, packs up the fam some Saturday, makes the trip to Olean, spends the night, gets dinner, then breakfast, then tours the campus and 5 years latter little Jimmy remembers how much fun he had, submits an app, attends, graduates and brings Bona glory 25 years later when he wins the Nobel Prize or is named anchor of the NBC nightly news - all because we moved out of our comfort zone just a little back in '14!
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Post by thesocalkid on Sept 12, 2014 20:18:41 GMT -5
With the Bonnies looking to Canada for talent how'bout a game in Toronto vs Cuse or Marquette
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Post by class70 on Sept 13, 2014 5:59:15 GMT -5
This discussion piqued my curiosity, so I checked on the cost of buying two season tickets to the Bonnies in a family pack. Total cost is $190, and that would be section 2, row M. Not the best seats in the house, but even if you upgrade we are talking about a very reasonable price for what has been quality basketball the past few years and is likely to be once again this year. If I lived anywhere within 100 miles of Olean I believe I'd be a regular at those games. It's hard to find a better entertainment deal even if the team gives up a third home game to play one in Toronto every year.
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Post by Bona84 on Sept 13, 2014 9:16:11 GMT -5
This discussion piqued my curiosity, so I checked on the cost of buying two season tickets to the Bonnies in a family pack. Total cost is $190, and that would be section 2, row M. Not the best seats in the house, but even if you upgrade we are talking about a very reasonable price for what has been quality basketball the past few years and is likely to be once again this year. If I lived anywhere within 100 miles of Olean I believe I'd be a regular at those games. It's hard to find a better entertainment deal even if the team gives up a third home game to play one in Toronto every year. Agreed. One ticket for a not very good seat to see a not very good Knicks team at MSG will cost you more than that.
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Post by BonaFan on Sept 13, 2014 10:44:54 GMT -5
Re: Men's Lax
I hate to veer off topic, but St. Bonaventure will always be challenged to add men's sports -- regardless of the sport -- because of Title IX requirements and finances.
SBU has 14 varsity sports programs -- the minimum required for a NCAA Division I status. Can SBU financially support another varsity sport? Probably not.
Even it if it could afford another program, another women's sport would need to be added to fulfill Title IX requirements. 16 athletic programs at SBU isn't plausible.
So the next option would be to cut a men's sport to add lax. Cross country or golf would probably be first on the chopping block, but those sports cost the athletic department very little. Developing and maintaining a decent men's lax program would be a pretty substantial financial undertaking that SBU probably cannot take on currently.
So maybe you chop men's XC and men's soccer. .... That's the only way I see SBU adding men's lax.
Is adding men's lax a great idea? Of course. But there are an awful lot of hoops to jump through to get there.
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Post by Pinnum on Sept 13, 2014 11:36:03 GMT -5
Let's say there are 4,000 people that are die hard Bonnies fans in Olean. There are also 2,000 die hard Bonnies fans in Buffalo and 2,000 in Rochester. There are also 3,000 casual Bonnies fans in Olean, 5,000 in Buffalo and 5,000 in Rochester. Using these metrics, at any one site, RC, BCA, FNC, there will probably be 5k fans in attendance. So, for the Bonnies the games are interchangeable it doesn't really matter where they play. You add in the cost to host off campus and the RC may be the best place to play when taking this micro view. So when the Bonnies play a conference road game on TV they are currently attracting the attention of roughly 20k viewers. This is a metric that the A10 member schools care about because this is a number television networks and advertisers care about. However, the Olean Market is saturated and won't really see any growth in fans following. While the Rochester market has a lot of basketball fans that don't get to see college basketball live and if there is high level basketball it will just draw even more. The key is growing the pie. The Bonnies need a larger fan base of people that are willing to tune in when the Bonnies are on television. There is already a very faithful SBU following from the proud alumni and I believe this can rub off on others and grow the number of potential watchers. It isn't unrealistic to think the number of casual SBU fans in Buffalo or Rochester could double in the next few years with the games played there and the added exposure of the conference. 50k viewers is the minimum needed to attract the interest of major networks like ESPN2, ESPNU, FS1 for a non-peak game time or to be high demand for a Regional Sports Network. Pinnum I get what you are saying regarding growing the pie - but honesltly Buffalo and Rochester and Nia falls people have known St Bonas for 50 years. They will tune their tv sets increasing those rating when St Bonas goes to NCAA's in back to back years - the following will be there. Take Andrew's senior season - only time anyone knew it was an NCAA season was the last game of the tournament so you did not have tv ratings all year long. If however Andrew and Bonnies made NCAA his junior season - many would have tuned in his senior season The same thing happened with Tim Winn - he only made it his last season. People will watch and tune into a "known winner" - and Rochester/Buffalo/Niagara falls is a good sized tv market to make A10 happy - just win !!! That's my point. The potential is there but it has not been realized. (Not that I think you're disagreeing with me.) Most of the Bona basketball fame came from the final-4 run and that era. As each year passes there are less and less people in Western New York that know about Bona basketball since people move away or die. There has been some great teams in more recent years but those impressions are more fickle because there is a lot more competition with television. Even in 2000 with Winn there were a lot of options for people to watch college basketball and not really know how great Bonas was. I don't think it is a matter of just needing to win. I think SBU has done well enough to have people interested but as you say their first introduction to the team is at the NCAAs which has often been their last appearance. In my opinion, Bonas should be Western New York's premier college basketball team. What makes SBU in a position to claim that space is not the location or the quality of play on the court but the conference affiliation. Bonas could take a loss to Niagara and people would still prefer to follow SBU than Niagara because it would include meetings with Dayton, UMass, St Louis, VCU, and other top programs. Just as the College of Saint Rose's win over Syracuse in the exhibition game a few years ago did nothing to increase Saint Roses following or attendance nor diminish that of Syracuse. So how do you monetize this potential that SBU has in WNY? In my opinion, you bring SBU to the fans and you show them what differentiates SBU from all the other Big 4 programs. I know people don't like the idea of losing RC games but I really think cutting the number of home games down to ten (the NCAA minimum for a home venue) would be a great move. It is simple economics. This would create scarcity with those games and those would always be sell outs. With the diminished on campus basketball games it could also result in growth in SBUs great women's program if the student's turned out in full force for a few games a year. That would really help sell recruits and further build an already great SBU women's basketball program. But this would not mean having less home court advantage games. I would want to see FNC and BCA become SBU havens. I already think BCA is a venue that has been good to the Bonnies. Selling season ticket mini-packs to Rochester and Buffalo would allow for increased marketing in the regions that would be more feasible due to the increased revenue. Now one billboard or newspaper ad isn't trying to attract fans to attend one game at FNC or BCA but rather two or three games. If you get fans to attend a game or two, they will start to identify a player or two on the team. It is inevitable. Once they have been introduced to the team they are a lot more interested in the team and this is how they begin to get vested. This is what makes them tune in to the games on TV. It is what makes them decide to attend another game. The big name teams can draw the fans in but the consistency of SBU is what will build the following to be proSBU. I would also begin to play in exempt MTEs but use the conference as leverage to get the home hosted games. I wouldn't be concerned about playing the game in Maui if SBU could host the Maui Mainland teams for a few dates. This gives SBU an expanded schedule and fills the games with the conferences they are already buying but most likely would be higher ranked teams from these conference which would make it a better option for RPI. In addition, this also allows for more flexibility for other games. Two games at FNC (A10 + Big4) and three games at BCA (non-conf + A10) would do a lot to build a fan base in the region. I know people are concerned about the home court advantage but do you really think there will be more Dayton, VCU, Davidson, Richmond, Rhode Island, or whoever fans than SBU fans at a game in Buffalo or Rochester? I know Dayton fans enjoyed the NCAAs in Buffalo. So even if the off chance they made the trip out from Dayton to attend the game, how is that a bad thing? Wouldn't it do more to sell the WNY fans on SBU's position in college basketball hierarchy while improving the atmosphere? Who wouldn't want to return for another event like that? Not to mention at the end of the day Dayton fans would be paying SBU for those tickets.
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Post by 5and23 on Sept 13, 2014 16:50:26 GMT -5
Tasty - and maybe some casual fan in Roch decides to take in the game there, really likes the product, packs up the fam some Saturday, makes the trip to Olean, spends the night, gets dinner, then breakfast, then tours the campus and 5 years latter little Jimmy remembers how much fun he had, submits an app, attends, graduates and brings Bona glory 25 years later when he wins the Nobel Prize or is named anchor of the NBC nightly news - all because we moved out of our comfort zone just a little back in '14! Well put. The excitement around our basketball program sets up apart from some other schools. And it can be the hook that captures the attention of teenagers making that decision about where to attend. Once Bona's get noticed, it's not hard to see the next steps unfold: a visit to that amazing campus, hearing from annoying loyal graduates, finding out about the very good education that's available, and getting a sense of the unique spirit of the place. We keep talking about wanting a steady stream of freshmen enrolling, well, let's step up our visibility in WNY.
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Post by jh on Sept 13, 2014 21:00:06 GMT -5
Pinnum start at the easy things - I can never understand how we have a mass comm school we brag about yet nobody notices the A10 standings are rarely in the Buffalo papers - how is anyone to understand the difference between the MAAC and the MAC and the A10?? I often hear the morning recap after a Bona game on Buffalo wgr55 and there is no mention of the Bona score from night before - does anyone pay attention to this detail? Anyone other than me call the station or the paper to complain? Apparently we just assume it happens - its NOT ! Why cant we assign intern mass comm majors to watch such detail? Are we checking if A10 standings are being published in papers in buffalo/cleveland/rochester/pitt? I will guarantee the answer is no,,,, who is responsible? anyone? We can beat Temple on a buzzer beater on a wed night but not reported - and nobody from the school spanks the wgr55 for not reporting it - little things add up.
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Post by Pinnum on Sept 13, 2014 22:13:52 GMT -5
I know some people in media. As many of you know, things have really changed in the information age. The media no longer has the power it once had to dictate what news people would see, the consumer has the power now because there is too much competition. You don't cover the Bonnies to get people interested in the Bonnies, you cover the Bonnies because people are interested in the Bonnies. You sell the people what they are already interested in. Why has journalism become so poor? Because it is what people demand. People don't want the Pentagon papers they want the story on Ray Rice. They don't want to read, they want to watch a cat video. It is all the same to advertisers...
The times have changed and the media is now more reactive than ever. If you have a few events in Buffalo or Rochester that are drawing fans, they will increase the quality of the coverage because they will see a demand for it.
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Post by DoyleBonas on Sept 14, 2014 1:40:57 GMT -5
I think we need to do 2 things.
1. No games should be played in the RC during winter break. 2. Convince (aka pay) a Power 5/UConn/Gonzaga/Memphis/etc. to come to the Reilly Center while students are on campus.
Unless the rent is outrageous, more people will go to a pre-Christmas game against Citadel, UMES, etc. in Rochester than in Olean. Dayton, on semi-national TV (CBS Sports is iffy as a national network), should be played in Buffalo/Rochester/Toronto too. I'd rather see 6,000 people in a half-empty FNC than 3,000 people in a half-empty RC. We are still heavily underestimating the Southern Ontario market. Hamilton/NF/Toronto is a gold mine waiting for someone to dig it up. We can't sell recruits on Buffalo since we aren't in metro Buffalo like UB, Canisius and Niagara. But no one has laid claim to the most populated area in Canada: Toronto, Windsor, Hamilton and Niagara Falls. Even if an Andrew Nicholson-level player only comes out of the area once a decade, at least we could put ourselves in charge of a huge Canadian TV market. Which means more money for us.
Which leads to my next point. Once every 2 or 3 years, we need to convince (like I said, probably pay) a Power 5 or elite program to play at the Reilly Center. Not FNC, not Blue Cross. Olean (while students are on campus).
I'm assuming we are playing at Pitt as a buy game this year. Pitt isn't going to WNY and if they were, a press release would've announce it. Well, what if we gave Pitt 100k or so to agree to an equal home-and-home? I think the payment works out as an investment if we schedule the game on a Saturday night and ESPN (the main channel) decides to show it. When's the last time we had a game on the main ESPN channel? We need to convince a power program to play us on our home court even if it costs something. I know we are strapped for cash, but it's an investment.
I look at football as an example. Toledo hosted Mizzou last week. UB hosted top-10 Baylor on Friday. If 2 MAC schools can convince an SEC and a Big 12 team to visit, we can convince a power 5 to play us in the RC. A-10 basketball has more prestige than MAC football, so we're already ahead of the curve.
I say we open up the checkbook and convince a regional power (Ohio St., Michigan/MSU, UConn, Pitt, Maryland) to play us early in December or as a special OOC game in the middle of January/February. I know those names are nationally known, but we need to differentiate ourselves from the crowd. We need to show people the physical identity of the school beyond "that one school with Bob Lanier and that Nicholson dude." This is something that will help us stand out. Instead of paying Blue Cross Arena to host a neutral-site game, pay the opponent to come to the Siberian fortress known as Olean for a home game.
I fully understand our financial situation. But it's about time we start showing America that Bonaventure is a destination school instead of a random Catholic school in the middle of nowhere. And the best ways to do that is through games in Toronto/Hamilton and getting powerhouse teams to play in the RC (no matter the cost).
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Post by sbu6507 on Sept 14, 2014 9:00:24 GMT -5
I think we need to do 2 things. 1. No games should be played in the RC during winter break. 2. Convince (aka pay) a Power 5/UConn/Gonzaga/Memphis/etc. to come to the Reilly Center while students are on campus. Unless the rent is outrageous, more people will go to a pre-Christmas game against Citadel, UMES, etc. in Rochester than in Olean. Dayton, on semi-national TV (CBS Sports is iffy as a national network), should be played in Buffalo/Rochester/Toronto too. I'd rather see 6,000 people in a half-empty FNC than 3,000 people in a half-empty RC. We are still heavily underestimating the Southern Ontario market. Hamilton/NF/Toronto is a gold mine waiting for someone to dig it up. We can't sell recruits on Buffalo since we aren't in metro Buffalo like UB, Canisius and Niagara. But no one has laid claim to the most populated area in Canada: Toronto, Windsor, Hamilton and Niagara Falls. Even if an Andrew Nicholson-level player only comes out of the area once a decade, at least we could put ourselves in charge of a huge Canadian TV market. Which means more money for us. Which leads to my next point. Once every 2 or 3 years, we need to convince (like I said, probably pay) a Power 5 or elite program to play at the Reilly Center. Not FNC, not Blue Cross. Olean (while students are on campus). I'm assuming we are playing at Pitt as a buy game this year. Pitt isn't going to WNY and if they were, a press release would've announce it. Well, what if we gave Pitt 100k or so to agree to an equal home-and-home? I think the payment works out as an investment if we schedule the game on a Saturday night and ESPN (the main channel) decides to show it. When's the last time we had a game on the main ESPN channel? We need to convince a power program to play us on our home court even if it costs something. I know we are strapped for cash, but it's an investment. I look at football as an example. Toledo hosted Mizzou last week. UB hosted top-10 Baylor on Friday. If 2 MAC schools can convince an SEC and a Big 12 team to visit, we can convince a power 5 to play us in the RC. A-10 basketball has more prestige than MAC football, so we're already ahead of the curve. I say we open up the checkbook and convince a regional power (Ohio St., Michigan/MSU, UConn, Pitt, Maryland) to play us early in December or as a special OOC game in the middle of January/February. I know those names are nationally known, but we need to differentiate ourselves from the crowd. We need to show people the physical identity of the school beyond "that one school with Bob Lanier and that Nicholson dude." This is something that will help us stand out. Instead of paying Blue Cross Arena to host a neutral-site game, pay the opponent to come to the Siberian fortress known as Olean for a home game. I fully understand our financial situation. But it's about time we start showing America that Bonaventure is a destination school instead of a random Catholic school in the middle of nowhere. And the best ways to do that is through games in Toronto/Hamilton and getting powerhouse teams to play in the RC (no matter the cost). Most of the schools that you mention have athletics budgets in the 100 million dollar range. Sorry, but we need to deal in realistic scenarios and there is no way that any elite school is coming to Olean where they know they stand a good chance of losing, for only 100k. The only way that we will ever be able to lure programs like that to the RC is to become a consistent winner (ala VCU). Only then will the benefit (tough road game against a quality, tournament tested team) outweigh the risk (major damage to RPI after a road loss).
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