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Post by tani on Nov 22, 2014 16:51:11 GMT -5
Attendance looks good tonight, not sure of the numbers.
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Post by birdman on Nov 22, 2014 17:07:46 GMT -5
Let's go Bona s
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Post by Pinnum on Nov 22, 2014 18:26:49 GMT -5
Attendance looks good tonight, not sure of the numbers. 4,489
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Post by ltbf on Nov 23, 2014 7:32:03 GMT -5
Many longtime season ticket holders did not renew this year because of the seat license. In the section where we sit it was $400 per seat. Obviously they did not know that they could direct this donation to any part of the athletic program.
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Post by jh on Nov 23, 2014 9:31:22 GMT -5
To add a bit more detail and numbers to see more clearly the impact to season ticket holders and see a more true ticket price per game (not $14/game). I hope this opens up the eyes to many out of town alums (I am one of them) who love to shout "what else is there to do in Olean blah blah blah and its such a cheap ticket blah blah blah).
This only addresses pricing - it does not touch on returning a pep band or food etcc that could add to the atmosphere of the event being sold.
Lets all agree that season ticket holders are the key to attendance for any event hoops, hockey, theatre etccc - you can see below a ticket policy that seems to provide incentives for people to give up their season tix and buy ala carte
The mandatory BAF fee attached to the season ticket seems to be the key issue. Many have given up their season tickets because of it. Add in the BAF fee and here are the game prices for a season ticket holder - compare this to $3 for OHS game. $44 per game for the chairback blues ($88/pair) $30 per game for the center Reds ($60/pair) $23, $19 and $17 as you move towards the sides
Now compare to game day : Reality is that gameday tickets can be had for $10, or even $5 when students aren't there, Given that - more people are choosing this option, choosing games on an a la carte basis, and always getting a great seat.
The pricing in essence punishes you to be a season ticket holder and leaves you wide open to small crowds when there is poor weather, or weak opponent or any other conflicting event.
SBU might want to evaluate this entire strategy and the incentives it creates. Taking a new look at pricing strategy and structure is often done - the Buffalo Sabres went to a Gold/Silver/Bronze pricing structure recognizing a game on a Tuesday in November is not worth the same as a Saturday night game played in March etccc.
Its not an easy thing to get exactly right - but when you are providing incentives for people NOT to buy season tickets for your season of events - that is not a good thing.
It actually looks like a pretty interesting economic model that could be developed and tweaked to get the right mixture - what a great project to offer to MBA students attempting to learn real world applications of differential equations class. We are a top Business school with a great new state of the art facility - a perfect place to solve this issue !!
Am I alone in being disappointed when the school decides to outsource such a problem solve to an outside marketing agency rather than truly believing in our own faculty and students to actually apply what we teach and learn? (Whole new topic I realize)
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Post by marylandbonnie1 on Nov 23, 2014 9:56:55 GMT -5
jh,
This is exactly what my parents did this year. They were season ticket holders since 1967. They did not renew because of the mandatory fees. They already give to the BAF as well. They felt they,as season ticket holders, were being taken advantage off. The ticket offfice called and called and called. My parents also tried to say if you just charge us what we paid last year, we will renew. They wrote letters and were very proactive with giving the university options.
In the end, when single seats went on sale, they got their same seats they have been sitting in since 1967 for half the price!! Simple economics for a couple who are over 75 years old.
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Post by ddsmugs on Nov 23, 2014 10:17:54 GMT -5
I was a student mid 80's and it was special to have all the dorm floors in their different colored t shirts filling the lower bleachers. I know the re-configured RC prohibits today for that to happen.
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Post by jh on Nov 23, 2014 10:18:12 GMT -5
jh, This is exactly what my parents did this year. They were season ticket holders since 1967. They did not renew because of the mandatory fees. They already give to the BAF as well. They felt they,as season ticket holders, were being taken advantage off. The ticket offfice called and called and called. My parents also tried to say if you just charge us what we paid last year, we will renew. They wrote letters and were very proactive with giving the university options. In the end, when single seats went on sale, they got their same seats they have been sitting in since 1967 for half the price!! Simple economics for a couple who are over 75 years old. MD Bonnie thanks for the feedback that this could be the worm spoiling the apple - pushing away season ticket holders since 1967 almost says it all. I dont crticize SBU for attempting this as a way to raise more revenue for the program - but it just may be time to rethink it and see if there is a better way to push towards buying season tickets again. My goal is not to push a specific solution but to first shine a light more clearly on what exactly the top problem may be and then hope the decision makers could begin to weigh other pricing options.
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Post by jh on Nov 23, 2014 10:25:37 GMT -5
I was a student mid 80's and it was special to have all the dorm floors in their different colored t shirts filling the lower bleachers. I know the re-configured RC prohibits today for that to happen. And this would address the atmosphere in the building - students cheering wildly make people want to be in the building rather than watch on their PC at home. Also a tiered pricing might take into account games when students are there and when they are not. I noticed in last night's game that there was a crowd of students that were forced to stand in the area next to the student bleacher section. Is it time we consider expanding the student bleachers? Would sound nice that SBU has to expand their student section in an era when colleges are contracting them. Could we create a 2nd student section that tries to be louder than the other etcccc ? If we win and we win - this all becomes so much easier and each solution majically works !
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Post by Pinnum on Nov 23, 2014 11:10:12 GMT -5
It really is a matter of sunk costs. You want to incentivize season tickets because season tickets are not often wasted. If you can buy on a game to game basis then you will only buy games you will be attending. When you have season tickets you're more likely to attend a game just because you already paid for it even if you're not that interested in the game. Even if you aren't interested enough to attend the game it is common for people to not want to see the tickets go to waste so they are given to other people who may not otherwise attend a game. These gifts of tickets are valuable to the school as they help sell concessions, create an atmosphere, and create new fans that will start to identify with the school.
You need to get people to the games. It is an interesting balance between brining in money and creating a fanbase but I have always believed the investment comes first and as a result SBU needs to attract fans before they can look to monetize fans. This is why I like the idea of expanding series in Rochester (and Buffalo). I would like to see mini-packs with a few games in these locals that can act as season tickets for their city with the ability to get access to a home game at the RC.
I can not comment about the outsourcing because I really was never clear on what services were really provided by the firm...
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Post by marylandbonnie1 on Nov 23, 2014 11:29:08 GMT -5
Pinnum,
You are absolutey correct! What I forgot to put in my post above is because they did not buy the season tickets, they decided to go to Florida for 3 weeks in January. In past years, they would have gave the tickets to a neighbor or friend but this year they simply did not buy. No revenue or new fan introduction because they are now buying a la carte!!
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Post by sneakers on Nov 23, 2014 11:44:14 GMT -5
Interesting suggestions JH (and others). However, as we both know the school is not merely trying to solve the problem of having the RC seats filled (that would be relatively easy thing to figure out and can be achieved by simply dropping ticket prices), rather they are trying to solve the problem of not generating enough revenue long-term to adequately support a Division 1 athletic program. I hate to have to focus and talk directly about money, but that is the main issue facing the University and it makes no sense to tippy toe around it. The difficult thing that the University needs to solve is how to maximize revenue and net earnings from the men's basketball program; the only major source of income outside of student tuition. It is a process of balancing ticket prices and ticket volume. If the price is too high we start losing on volume, and if the price is too low the school is leaving money on the table. Money that it desperately needs.
It is unfortunate (but true) that many fans would rather save money and get a better deal on tickets than support the program more generously. I understand that we are not dealing with a wealthy fan base and some fans simply can't afford higher prices. However, some of the same people who complain about the prices are often the ones who also complain when we can't afford the luxuries that almost all other D1 program have, including adequate recruiting budgets and salaries that are competitive enough to keep our good people at Bonas. It certainly creates a dilemma. Most colleges can rely heavily on a strong season ticket fan base to raise money for their programs. They make good money on men's basketball tickets as well as parking fees, seat licenses, dolling out seat locations based on giving levels, sales of luxury suites, etc. Bonas apparently doesn't have the luxury of having a fan base that can pay for the program and it is getting harder and harder to put all of these costs on the backs of the students given the shrinking number of students. The amount of the budget spent on athletics impacts other areas of the university including programming, faculty pay levels, etc. How much longer can that continue?
Unfortunately, the school's goal can't be to give the best value in order to maximize attendance, but rather they need to find the best way to maximize revenues to support the expenses of the entire athletic program. And it is not just basketball. In order to play D1 basketball the NCAA requires us to be D1 in every other sport. Bonas already fields the minimum number of teams allowed to keep us in the A-10 (7 men's sports and 7 women's sports). These sports are run on as low a budget as possible but it still cost lots of money to maintain them. If we drop even one of those sports we would not be eligible to field a men's basketball team in the A-10. Bonas actually has (by far) the lowest athletic budgets of any school in the A-10, yet at the same time it has the highest percentage of its university budget spent on athletics of any team in the A-10. It will become almost impossible to continue this without more big time financial support from alumni and local fans. If we have a race to the bottom for ticket affordability Bonas will not be a D1 university for much longer and that will come as a slap in the face for all of us long time Bonas fans. I can't imagine what people on this Board would do with all their free time. ;-)
It seems to me that the University is leaning about as hard as it can on local Olean area fans. While we need to maximize game day revenues, we also need many of our successful alumni to step to the plate and consistently support this program more generously. I suggest that if people reading this can afford it and if they want the program to succeed, they should think seriously about significantly increasing their generously to BAF this holiday season. I know that many of you give generously already, so sorry I'm to be preaching to the choir. However, the status quo is not acceptable long-term. The University athletic program simply needs more financial support if it is to survive and thrive on the D1 level . This financial support can only come from higher donations from those who already support the program, as well as many, many new donors joining in giving as well.
Sorry for the rant and sorry if this offends anyone . . . but that is how I see it . . .
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Post by jh on Nov 23, 2014 12:02:07 GMT -5
Jimmy I agree the goal is to maximize the revenue (thats what variable pricing intends to do) - i'm only saying is that the current ticket pricing model may not be maximizing revenue (losing season tix holders indicates that.
Just because you add a surcharge to tickets does not mean you get an overall greater revenue - the revenue you chase away can be more than what was caught...
Its not an easy balance/formula - or are we assuming the current structure is already perfect and should never be looked at to improve?
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Post by sneakers on Nov 23, 2014 12:07:39 GMT -5
JH - I think we agree on the balance and thinking outside the box on how to price tickets is helpful. My guess is that the University is experimenting with exactly that. Without seeing ticketholder reactions to different pricing schemes how would they know what the best balance is. I think the best price/volume balance will unfortunately mean losing a few season ticket holders.
I think we also both agree that ticket sales alone will not support this program.
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Post by Pinnum on Nov 23, 2014 12:52:43 GMT -5
I agree. We all know the end goal is to increase revenue. The question is if forcing your most loyal fans to pay a surcharge has resulted in an increase in revenue or if it has disenfranchised fans resulted in less revenue and fan engagement. Obviously, without looking at the data, I don't know the answer.
I don't see the solution as trying to get more money out of the current base but rather growing the base. Rochester, I believe, is the key to this for Basketball. It is the largest city in the United States without a D1 school (RIT Ice Hockey being an exception). I would like to see up to three games a year in Rochester. Once you get to that number of games you can actually start to build a reoccurring base for ticket sales and you can get a decent return on concentrated advertising dollars. Additionally, it is a great way for the development and alumni offices to reconnect to alums and build relationships.
I would like to see an increase in the student body (and local community) with a following of the women's team. They are a quality program. And I think scarcity would help. I would like to see one basketball game a week at SBU, on average. Either men or women and have a real focus on making it an event.
MSoccer has already pared down their D1 schedule and having other programs do the same would save money. Cutting a road trip is the same as having someone write a decent sized check. Joint efforts with the Big 4 WNY schools to attract teams to come to the region for games (and tournaments) is a great way to save money. As great as I think it is that the softball team is going to Hawaii this spring, I hope it is not being covered by the team's operating budget. I would much rather see some partnerships with MEAC and SWAC schools where we package basketball guarantees that include an exchange for other sports. Baseball goes to Florida and pays to be a part of a tournament, they might as well save some money by having Jackson State host a series in Mississippi. Jackson State has a similar RPI to Maine and Lehigh who baseball is scheduled to play in Florida and schools are always interested in getting home contests so their athletes don't have to travel.
I could go on and on. I think there are a lot of strategic measures that can be taken. However, it is a lot of work.
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