poot
New Member
Posts: 13 
|
Post by poot on Mar 3, 2015 16:55:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by sbu79 on Mar 3, 2015 18:19:08 GMT -5
When one of my daughters was doing the college tour/interview circuit, we stopped at a college that is located in a small town. I got to talking to the admissions guy about college economics in a general way, and he told me that colleges that fit those 3 criteria are almost guaranteed to be money losers. In the case of that particular school, it was an MBA program in a metropolitan area 250 miles away that generated enough cash to keep the enterprise going. Without that, you need donors. Small schools aren't likely to attract big money philanthropists, so they have to count on their alumni to come through.
|
|
|
|
Post by 5and23 on Mar 3, 2015 19:53:52 GMT -5
An all-female student body of approximately 700.
|
|
poot
New Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by poot on Mar 3, 2015 20:17:34 GMT -5
It's certainly not a direct comparison to Bona's situation, but the time for saying "yeah, but..." has long since passed. The fact is that, despite the large endowment and strong accredited programs, Sweet Briar reacted too late to the trends in higher ed and couldn't adjust appropriately. Even if they admitted men (which would be a no brainer for enrollment), the biggest challenge they face is that they're a small, rural, liberal arts school. Lastly, Bona's discount rate is 58%; Sweet Briar's is 42%. Bona needs to have a significantly higher enrollment because it nets so much less. Bona's tuition is $29,500, but only nets $12,300. Sweet Briar's is $34,400, with a net of $19,950. More ominously, they didn't have to deal with division 1 athletics and had nearly twice Bona's endowment. www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2015/03/03/sweet_briar_college_closing_why_the_wealthy_virginia_school_is_closing_its.htmlwww.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-14/small-u-s-colleges-battle-death-spiral-as-enrollment-drops |
|
|
|
Post by jh on Mar 4, 2015 7:17:23 GMT -5
You can start with the buy games and replace with a BCS payday
|
|
|
|
Post by class70 on Mar 4, 2015 8:23:54 GMT -5
If Bona's offers a good return on investment (ROI) students will come in great numbers. Some of the most expensive schools offer high returns to students. Those who have studied this subject have also found the unsurprising result that college majors are an important determinant of value. In addition, I believe one of the best predictors of lifetime earnings is the SAT score. If you max the SAT you will probably end up doing well no matter where you go. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any data for St. Bonaventure in this fairly comprehensive data base: www.payscale.com/college-roi/Perhaps Pinnum, who is well-informed on this subject, will have some wise words to add. |
|
|
|
Post by njbonnie08 on Mar 4, 2015 8:26:54 GMT -5
I've heard some pretty scary numbers about Bonas' finances. It seems there needs to be a drastic change at the school because we are not beyond this type of situation. I could not imagine Bonas closing their doors but given the numbers/enrollment/expenses and rural area it is something that we must consider is a real possibility should things not become in order. www.thebonablog.com |
|
|
|
Post by homersbu on Mar 4, 2015 10:01:05 GMT -5
This is NOT a Bonaventure-specific problem. It’s a national problem facing small, private, religiously-affiliated colleges — especially those who are rural.
And if you think a miraculous run to another A-10 title is going to solve everything, please move on to the “2015 Recruiting” thread if you want to continue to keep your head in the sand.
Just because we’re on national TV a lot more doesn’t mean we’re suddenly a national university and can start plundering new markets for students. 45,000 viewers on NBCSN hardly qualifies as a nation. Yes, it’s nice exposure, and will help slowly build the brand of all the schools in the A-10. Bernie McGlade has done great things for the A-10’s exposure. But we’ll never be Syracuse or Carolina or even VCU — unless, as sbu79 suggests, enough alumni empty their wallets to support the program to the extent that VCU does. (But is that realistic?)
We’re a regional university, and a damn good one — but that region, from Cleveland to Erie to Philly, and Buffalo to Rochester to Boston, is eroding in terms of prospective students. Plain and simple, it’s the numbers, stupid.
The combination of that sobering fact and the debt-riddled fears brought on by the 2008 economic collapse have conspired to make the marketplace a gloomy one. Doesn’t help that there are now all these articles and books surfacing questioning whether college is even worth it.
The school has done so many good things since the black eye of the scandal. Adding beautiful new donor-sponsored buildings and facilities while incurring precious little debt. Stabilizing and rejuvenating the athletics department (at least some of the programs, and certainly the two most prominent). Increasing donations in a challenging environment.
But you can’t alter demographics — except by expanding your footprint. That’s why this initiative with Hilbert is so critical, potentially to our ultimate survival. That’s the good news. While a lot of schools are sitting on their hands hoping the trends will reverse themselves, Bona’s has at least been proactive in seeking this merger. Bonaventure has rarely been at the cutting edge of many things, but this is one of them.
I can tell you one thing. I have a friend whose child works there, and if you don’t think the admissions office is working their butts off, turning over every rock that makes economic sense to find new students and to keep current students, you’re crazy. They are tireless, but they are up against a challenge unlike any seen in the last century in higher education.
Understandably, the members of this Bandwagon community are mostly concerned with hoops. I get that. But I hope that most of you are equally as concerned with the university as a whole. These are challenging times ahead and we need to support the place now more than ever.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eileen OSullivan on Mar 4, 2015 11:56:34 GMT -5
I love Saint Bonaventure. My daughter is a Senior and my son is a Freshman. I try to recruit at least one student per year and have done so since my daughter started. I think that admissions does an incredible job. But it is far and people still have a big misconception that a SUNY school is cheaper. I think that the guidance offices should start to push the incredible programs that Bonaventure has. My daughter is in the 8 year medical program with GW Med. There are only 2 kids from Long Island in her year. On Long Island there are so many kids that do a Pre-Med track and that head to SUNY Buffalo because it's cheaper. But if you are a high caliber student then it actually is less expensive at Bonaventure and you get a better education.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pinnum on Mar 4, 2015 14:05:24 GMT -5
If Bona's offers a good return on investment (ROI) students will come in great numbers. Some of the most expensive schools offer high returns to students. Those who have studied this subject have also found the unsurprising result that college majors are an important determinant of value. In addition, I believe one of the best predictors of lifetime earnings is the SAT score. If you max the SAT you will probably end up doing well no matter where you go. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any data for St. Bonaventure in this fairly comprehensive data base: www.payscale.com/college-roi/Perhaps Pinnum, who is well-informed on this subject, will have some wise words to add. My biggest question is what liabilities Sweet Briar has on their books. The endowment will end up being transferred and I wonder if it was a conscious decision by the five schools (SB plus the four schools teaching out) that they would assume the assets to help stabilize those schools. Most non-profits will raise their hand early to allow their efforts and history to be able to benefit another with a similar mission (which is what I expect happened with Hilbert). Graduate school use to be a big source of revenue for schools, especially when education majors were first required to have a masters. However the significance of where you got your masters in fields like education has greatly diminished. Your undergraduate education is what matters and the masters degree has become a matter of checking a box on an application. Do you have a masters? Yes? Okay. This has allowed for scalability of programs and the winners have been programs like Grand Canyon University, Ashford University, and University of Phoenix. (For the record, I have no problem with these schools.) This is different than other programs like Law School where school ranking is very significant or med school where getting a charter can be difficult to open a program so every med school in the country is quality resulting in a lot of students going to med school outside the country. The real issue was mentioned above. Government funding. Everyone likes to talk about the skyrocketing cost of college but that is largely a fallacy. People have mentioned discount rates but discount rates have increased at private schools. What has largely been happening is that private schools have been raising the sticker price to try to get more out of the few full pay students and then offering more tuition waivers (scholarships, financial aid, etc) to the rest of the students. What does it matter if the sticker price of a school is $50,000 if you only have to pay $10,000? Most schools that were raising tuition were also increasing tuition discounts so when you look at net costs you don't see that drastic rise in the cost of college that is being reported in the media. Most kids, and parents, don't know anything about the college process and this hurts small private schools like Bonas. Every year you have a flood of high school juniors and seniors who are trying to learn about college with their parents for the first time. How many people have heard of parents that tell their kids they can only look at state schools because they don't have money for private school? It happens all the time despite many kids being able to get a great education at a private school for a similar price. Frankly, there are too many kids in college. I am a huge fan of liberal arts colleges but I understand that there are too many kids getting into colleges and there are many students either failing to complete their education or are finishing without truly being educated. A liberal arts education that prepares you for life is only valuable to the kids that really want it and for many kids they don't really want it. A lot of state schools have been motivated to increase enrollment in an effort to attract more funding which has really impacted the private schools that have stayed small by design. There is a lot of competition between schools which is making it hard to attract students without direct subsidies provided by the state or from alumni (endowments) which has lead to a lot of superficial efforts to attract students. When I saw the post above regarding Dowling College and how they are having a hard time, I couldn't help but think of their great softball facility that puts many D1 schools in the northeast to shame. I really like the facility but I often see spending on athletics that I think is short sighted in hopes of attracting students. The truth is that most things that impress students on campus tours never get used by the students. No matter what school you go to you will find that the majority of students just spend time hanging out with their friends and most students rarely go more than a few miles off campus. |
|
|
|
Post by Eileen OSullivan on Mar 4, 2015 15:12:44 GMT -5
I live about 5 miles from Dowling College. Dowling has a large percentage of students that are commuter students. They are losing a lot of money on dorming. Dowling has also not expanded the amount of programs they offer. People on Long Island know Dowling for a college to become a teacher on Long Island. It's competition is St. Josephs which is 8 miles east. St. Joes is ahead of the game because is on Sunrise highway and it is a commuter school. There are no dorming facilities. Many of my friends have children who attend Stony Brook which is 20 minutes north. Their kids are given the false sense of being away because they live on campus. They probably see their parents more than they did in high school because they have more free time. When we chose a college- A HUGE REQUIRMENT was that it did not have a large commuter base. It needed to be far away. Driveable in an emergency but easy enough to fly. Students who dorm at college and only return home for main breaks , statistically do better. I go visit my kids often at school and they come home every break there is. But they each have a GPA of 3.9. I think if they were on a campus that emptied out on Friday it would be a different scenario.
I have said it before, Bonaventure needs to start a bridge program with JCC for RN BSN. The new standard will be that a new graduate nurse will require a BSN. The nursing program has saved Mount Saint Mary's in Newburgh. I went on a visit with someone to Mount Saint Mary's last year and there was a shooting 1/4 mile away from the gated campus. Not a good way to arrive.
|
|
poot
New Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by poot on Mar 4, 2015 16:06:05 GMT -5
Pinnum, you hit one of the problems dead on - discount rates. Higher ed has embraced the deceptive pricing practices of car dealerships. Bona has an untenable business model based on high tuition/high discount rate. The incoming freshman class came in with a 58% discount rate just to hit the enrollment numbers and still fell short. Canisius has given away their campus and image and can't make budget despite being in the middle of Buffalo.
I think colleges and universities (more specifically, their boards) were simply greedy. It defies logic that with more students going to school, the price has gone up rather than down (see also textbooks). Colleges and Universities were making budget with classrooms 2/3 full, but as college became a necessity, instead of being content with full classrooms and few worries about making budget, they got greedy. In order to maintain that greed, they had to also become rather deceptive in their pricing practices. Now that the demographic bottom has fallen out for the foreseeable future, they can't reign in their discounts because the illusion of large scholarships is how they woo'd students.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eileen OSullivan on Mar 4, 2015 16:28:10 GMT -5
It's funny how we mention location. The College of Mount Saint Vincent- run by the sisters of charity in Riverdale NY. 30 minutes to NYC by train., just did a bizarre tuition restructure. Full price with room and board is appx. 28k a year. I was researching a school near NYC that had a nursing program.
Just felt the need to share that. You would think that the buisness program at least he school would be full but it's the nursing program.
Sorry for the typos - using the phone
3 minutes till tip off
|
|
|
|
Post by bbb on Mar 4, 2015 16:48:00 GMT -5
If Bona's offers a good return on investment (ROI) students will come in great numbers. Some of the most expensive schools offer high returns to students. Those who have studied this subject have also found the unsurprising result that college majors are an important determinant of value. In addition, I believe one of the best predictors of lifetime earnings is the SAT score. If you max the SAT you will probably end up doing well no matter where you go. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any data for St. Bonaventure in this fairly comprehensive data base: www.payscale.com/college-roi/Perhaps Pinnum, who is well-informed on this subject, will have some wise words to add. I'd really like to know Bonas. My friends from the mid-80s have been incredibly successful. It seems to me the success rate of people who graduated Bonas is very high. |
|
|
|
Post by wgt on Mar 4, 2015 17:24:46 GMT -5
Increasing enrollment at Bona is of paramount importance. Over the past few days, a Bona Admissions Team has been conducting “Bonaventure Comes to You Programs” in the Metro NY area. March 1- Whippany NJ, March 2- St Francis Assisi 31st St, Manhattan, March 3 – Melville, LI and tonight at Tarrytown NY, Sheraton Hotel. As a volunteer for the Bona SHARE Program I will be participating in tonight’s event meeting with accepted students & their parents. Will miss the St Louis game but will be texted scores. I suggest to all that have an interest, time & desire to increase Bona enrollment to consider joining the SHARE program. There are MANY ways you can help. Click on the link below to see details. I guarantee you will find the experience extremely rewarding and helpful to enrollment. I urge you to PM me if you have any questions on my experiences with SHARE. www.sbu.edu/alumni/share-bona's |
|
