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Post by firstdev on Apr 3, 2015 7:54:09 GMT -5
I would agree that Gansey was one case in which we were hurt substantially by his transfer but it was really a "trade" with John Bielen's WVU team. Remember we got Tyler Relph (NYS Scholastic Player of the Year) in return. No "draft picks" were involved.
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Post by derhut on Apr 3, 2015 7:58:57 GMT -5
we can debate whether the sbu coaches are bringing in A10 caliber players on an annual basis...but, players transferring schools to seek better opportunities is nothing new - Hell, look at NBA rosters..how many of those players transferred HIGH SCHOOLS let alone changed colleges ? Whether it be from public high schools to catholic high schools or visa versa, public high schools to prep schools or from any school to any of the basketball finishing schools such as henderson prep in nevada, oak hill, etc. They are trying to find the best fit for them. Kids are constantly transferring for a variety of reasons..homesickness, they cant hack the school work, girlfriends, bad relationships with coaches, etc. The dynamics change once a kid signs a letter of intent..it goes from being wined and dined to becoming a cog in the hoops machine and business. I dont recall how many other D1 offers X had...any other top 7/8 conferences offer him ? Any kid in his shoes would leave the cold and snow of western ny and riding the pine...maybe he walks on to play along side of his brother. If I recall correctly, Adams had academic issues..so sbu essentially took a chance on him...it didnt work out...many of these kids, whether it be in ncaa hoops or football receive inaccurate info on their abilities and potential to go pro...parents, aau coaches and friends or the dreaded possies[sp] are constantly in their ears about how they are being treated. a previous poster listed rooney, st john and others..how about eric siegrest ? willie morse left sbu and had a nice run at colgate..jeff foote..who would have thunk it ? Scouting players is not an science. Stuff changes and players change schools..Folks change jobs in the real world all of the time..it happens !
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Post by localfan on Apr 3, 2015 8:26:51 GMT -5
Alright, jh. So let's just fire Schmidt. Let's fire him. It's clear that he's not a good enough recruiter for you. You say that we can't "excuse" his actions. So let's just go ahead and fire the guy that's 70-55 overall and 33-33 in conference since the 2011-2012 season. You know what, you mentioned Rob Lanier as a great recruiting success story. Let's hire him! He recruits "first-team A-10 players" in your own words. Let's scoop him up. This will be exciting! You know, except for the fact that he was a head coach at Siena and went 58-70 overall and 34-38 in his conference. What conference did he coach in? Oh yeah, it was the MAAC. Get real. Seriously, just get real. He simply needs to recruit better - he himself (not me) just escorted 5 players out the door in last 2 years - he scouted and he brought in. The impact? Look at the UMass game where Jay Adams fouled out with 2 mins to go but due to poor recruiting we did not have a viable backup PG to handle the ball - we turnover multiple times and lose a key A10 game. Missing on 5 players over 2 years = 13th, 9th & 7th place finishes. Crazy me I wish for our team to do better - and it seems the greatest room for improvement is in the recruitment of players. Where do you think we can improve to get better? He has another opportunity here now with 5 rides - lets see what it brings. Rick Pitino on Zagsblog last week: “College coaching is a lot different than pro coaching,” Pitino said here when I asked his thoughts on the matter. “Pat Riley leaving the booth, going into coaching, Steve Kerr, it’s a little different. College coaching is all about recruiting. It starts with recruiting. So whoever they hire, if he has the potential to be a great recruiter, regardless of how much he knows about basketball — because you’ve got to be on the phone with AAU coaches. You’ve got to get in at 6:30. You’ve got to work until late at night. So you’ve got to understand the dynamics of it.” You and I fundamentally disagree. College coaching is not all about recruiting, ESPECIALLY in our situation. In our situation, it's all about DEVELOPMENT. You recruit players you feel can DEVELOP and TRANSLATE on the floor. In your opinion, Jalen Adams was a "great" recruit. Well how did that work out? He couldn't sniff the floor in the A-10 because he was incapable of playing team defense, had no clue what to do on offense, and tried to play 1-on-4 ball every time he touched it. Individual talent? Yes. Team talent? No. At Louisville for Rick Pitinio college coaching is about recruiting. At Duke and Kentucky it's about recruiting. At St. Bonaventure it's about developing players into capable contributors. Look at the list of transfers around the nation and then tell me that we're unique because we have people leaving the program. We're not. It happens literally everywhere. Richmond nearly won the NIT and they had two kids transfer out. FIRE CHRIS MOONEY! He's not doing near a good enough job. You failed to answer my question about Rob Lanier. If he's such a great recruiter of first-tier A-10 talent, why did he fail so poorly in the MAAC? I'll tell you why: He can't DEVELOP players. Coaching at our level at our school and in our conference is as much if not more about Xs and Os and development as it is about recruiting.
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Post by localfan on Apr 3, 2015 8:27:44 GMT -5
And any indication that Mark "himself" "escorted players out the door" is beyond ridiculous. He gave those kids opportunities. They didn't seize them. That's on them. And that's why THEY chose to leave.
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Post by jh on Apr 3, 2015 9:15:37 GMT -5
Please read a bit more closely - you are not fundamentally disagreeing with me - you are fundamentally disagreeing with Rick Pitino - its his quote - not mine.
The point regarding Rob Lanier is he was not even the top assitant on the baron staff and look how talented he was in obtaining recruiting jobs at the highest levels of college basketball (Florida & Texas) - Joe Lombardi the top assistant has had a successful career as well.
For the 10000th time - I have never questioned coach Schmidt's x's and o's and player substitutions - the kids play hard for him and develop and evolve under him. But yes I can observe that and also observe his recruiting has always lacked.... and we need both to hit on all cylinders to make the NCAA's which I assume is everyone's wish !!
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Post by ceharv on Apr 3, 2015 9:36:50 GMT -5
And now for my two cents -> first, how come to some posters, whenever we bring in/develop a Nicholson, Jay Adams or Posely the staff was lucky, but whenever someone proves to be a bust it is proof positive the staff cannot recruit and are idiots? Second, other then maybe Duke and Kentucky, someone please list the schools that have NOT missed out on potential recruits, (although it should be remembered that after the first several years under Coach K, the Duke crowd was calling for his scalp, demanding he be fired and replaced by someone competent.) Also, while previous staffs in the not-to-distant past have indeed brought in some good players, I just do not recall those teams having all that much success (did I miss a decade of NCAA trips or something?), nor are those guys tearing things up where they are now. I also think that some people need to realize that the top coaches around now are pulling in @$3M/year, and demanding and getting deals for staffs that come near to doubling that, and Bonas cannot compete on that level - we will never match what Texas, Alabama and hell, even Wichita St., just put out there. So we are not going to have - ever - the coach and staff that pulls in the top talent and demanding - or holding this staff to that level of production and success just ain't changing that. For anyone thinking Schmidt should be canned - you always have to ask - who do you expect we'd be able to bring in to replace him? Hell, do you expect that even the current RMU coach, Andy Toole (or any of the "hot, young, up-and-coming guys), would take the job at the salary and budget we offer? If we fire him now, in a few years we'd be in the same boat as Fordham and Duquesne - the places where coaches go to die. Further, can someone point me to where and when anyone on this staff "excused" the failure to succeed at a higher level on Bona's location, the league or the budget? I do not recall the quote that some here seem to be constantly referring to. I confess to getting overly excited about the prospect of any "new" players coming in, because each is the next Nicholson, Posely or Jay A. until they prove they are not. But think how excited we'll all be if the staff manages to bring in someone now who has the H.S. resume that Jalen Adams had, a kid we just lost! Hell, if we sign Kyle A. people will go nuts with anticipation - me included - but of course he may turn out to be the the Barry A, or X. Smith, or any of the others of that ilk, in which case people will be asking - "Who is responsible for this waste of time, energy and money?" and "Why didn't the staff go after the kid I mentioned on this board back in '12 who is now averaging 11ppg for Toledo?" Finally (yes!) notwithstanding this rant, I will remain addicted to the Bandwagon and enjoy reading it most every day, and I will foolishly rejoice mightily when we sign K.A. and the other future superstars to come into the fold. Pass the Kool-Aid please!
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Post by efsboca on Apr 3, 2015 10:21:02 GMT -5
I would agree that Gansey was one case in which we were hurt substantially by his transfer but it was really a "trade" with John Bielen's WVU team. Remember we got Tyler Relph (NYS Scholastic Player of the Year) in return. No "draft picks" were involved. Bad trade. Like trading a corvette for a pinto.
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Post by demourse on Apr 3, 2015 10:33:43 GMT -5
Yeah, we don't want Lanier, he couldn't win the MAAC. He was 34-38 in conference. Yet again, how many of you would cream your jeans if we hired Jim E. Midnight, after all, he posted an impressive 56-86 record in the A-10 while at SBU.
No way you fire Schmidt. If you do, you need to bring in someone that has recruited for a successful major program, and it would help if they had experience working for a Catholic university and even better if they already have ties to SBU....I nominate a guy on the bench at Notre Dame, Anthony Solomon. He has several years experience and does have ties to SBU. We need to get him now!!!
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Post by mrpus4 on Apr 3, 2015 10:34:11 GMT -5
There is no question our coaching staff has shortcomings but they do an outstanding job related to our demographics. There's a reasons we have had so few winning seasons since joining the A 10. I hate to see so many transfers but at least we are losing guys who have not played much. How about Nova who loses a starter in Ennis? Or how Drexel lost their leading scorer in Lee? At least Wright, Adams or Posley haven't left! Unfortunately these times show about 2 players will leave from every team. While some guys have not performed as much as we would like, or in some cases, not gotten a shot, we can't blame the coaching staff every time without giving credit for Adams, Posley, D. Wright, Nicholson, Cook, Conger, Kloof, M. Wright, Gathers, etc...Schmidt got criticized for signing high major guys in Carter and Millinghaus who did not honor their commits. He can't from some fans unless he recruits a high major guy and that guy plays here and succeeds.
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Post by efsboca on Apr 3, 2015 10:35:24 GMT -5
And now for my two cents -> first, how come to some posters, whenever we bring in/develop a Nicholson, Jay Adams or Posely the staff was lucky, but whenever someone proves to be a bust it is proof positive the staff cannot recruit and are idiots? Second, other then maybe Duke and Kentucky, someone please list the schools that have NOT missed out on potential recruits, (although it should be remembered that after the first several years under Coach K, the Duke crowd was calling for his scalp, demanding he be fired and replaced by someone competent.) Also, while previous staffs in the not-to-distant past have indeed brought in some good players, I just do not recall those teams having all that much success (did I miss a decade of NCAA trips or something?), nor are those guys tearing things up where they are now. I also think that some people need to realize that the top coaches around now are pulling in @$3M/year, and demanding and getting deals for staffs that come near to doubling that, and Bonas cannot compete on that level - we will never match what Texas, Alabama and hell, even Wichita St., just put out there. So we are not going to have - ever - the coach and staff that pulls in the top talent and demanding - or holding this staff to that level of production and success just ain't changing that. For anyone thinking Schmidt should be canned - you always have to ask - who do you expect we'd be able to bring in to replace him? Hell, do you expect that even the current RMU coach, Andy Toole (or any of the "hot, young, up-and-coming guys), would take the job at the salary and budget we offer? If we fire him now, in a few years we'd be in the same boat as Fordham and Duquesne - the places where coaches go to die. Further, can someone point me to where and when anyone on this staff "excused" the failure to succeed at a higher level on Bona's location, the league or the budget? I do not recall the quote that some here seem to be constantly referring to. I confess to getting overly excited about the prospect of any "new" players coming in, because each is the next Nicholson, Posely or Jay A. until they prove they are not. But think how excited we'll all be if the staff manages to bring in someone now who has the H.S. resume that Jalen Adams had, a kid we just lost! Hell, if we sign Kyle A. people will go nuts with anticipation - me included - but of course he may turn out to be the the Barry A, or X. Smith, or any of the others of that ilk, in which case people will be asking - "Who is responsible for this waste of time, energy and money?" and "Why didn't the staff go after the kid I mentioned on this board back in '12 who is now averaging 11ppg for Toledo?" Finally (yes!) notwithstanding this rant, I will remain addicted to the Bandwagon and enjoy reading it most every day, and I will foolishly rejoice mightily when we sign K.A. and the other future superstars to come into the fold. Pass the Kool-Aid please! Pluses and minuses occur for all coaching staffs. I like Schmidt a lot and he does good things with players he gets. My two issues with him are that he has trouble getting his team ready early in the year, and some of his recruiting. He seemingly cured one part when he finally started signing some 4 year guys in the early period rather than waiting for the leftovers (even if some of the leftovers were good). Some of that may or may not have been his issue as he had some kids back out of their commitments (but at least one indicated the staff was partially the reason). My biggest recruiting issues always relate to the use of jucos rather than primarily targeting 4 year players. Some of these are not recruiting misses, but recruiting choices (such as Lavon Long, who has so far had a nice career at Siena, and stuck a fork in us). As discussed below, jucos are great at filling a hole (i.e. getting a 6'10" thumper to give the starting C a blow for 10 minutes a game, play D, hand out 5 hard fouls, and rebound...and if they are good enough to compete and win the starting job), but not as a staple to your recruiting. Posley and Hall are probably the 2 examples of jucos who will contribute for 2 years, while the others have had 1 good year and one so-so year. Otherwise, I think Mark has been a great ambassador for the school, is well respected, and has done a great job for the money.
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Post by sneakers on Apr 3, 2015 10:37:48 GMT -5
Is it fair to say Schmidt is a poor recruiter based on a few recruits that didn't work out while ignoring the big upside surprises that he has delivered in the form or Andrew, Jaylen, NDoye, Posely, Dion, Hall, etc.?
On every team of 13 basketball players there will be some players who are dissatisfied with their minutes and their ability to contribute in game situations. That is natural as there are only so many minutes to dole out. Remember, every one of these players have been the superstars of their teams their whole lives until suddenly some of them find themselves sitting on the bench for multiple years with no assurance that the situation will ever change. Exploring other situations is merely doing what they think is right for them, as they should.
Even if the Bonas coaching staff were the best recruiters in the world and were able to get an entire team of thirteen 5 star recruits, we would still have the same problem with players being dissatified with their minutes. There would still be players who decide to move on. It is unfortunate, but that is what is happening not only at Bonas, but at just about all colleges.
Every poster on this Board (other than the trolls) are in agreement that we would like the coaching staff to recruit the best available players to come to Bonas. Players with the highest likelihood of success athletically, academically, ethically, etc. Players with great attitudes and huge upsides. However, it would be very naive to think that any coach's judgment about how an 17 year old high school kid will turn out as a D1 college player would be flawless. It is not rocket science to evaluate talent currently exhibited by high school players, but it is extremely difficult to see how much future developmental upside these players have. Some will meet or exceed expectations, but some will dissapoint.
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Post by sbu79 on Apr 3, 2015 12:25:37 GMT -5
Yeah, we don't want Lanier, he couldn't win the MAAC. He was 34-38 in conference. Yet again, how many of you would cream your jeans if we hired Jim E. Midnight, after all, he posted an impressive 56-86 record in the A-10 while at SBU. No way you fire Schmidt. If you do, you need to bring in someone that has recruited for a successful major program, and it would help if they had experience working for a Catholic university and even better if they already have ties to SBU....I nominate a guy on the bench at Notre Dame, Anthony Solomon. He has several years experience and does have ties to SBU. We need to get him now!!! I almost passed on this post when you made the "Jim E" reference. Since it was a short one, I hung in there for the 2nd paragraph though. Some really fine sarcasm there. Enjoyed it immensely.
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Post by bub on Apr 3, 2015 14:04:25 GMT -5
Rhody just announced three guys leaving the program, including 2 rotation guys in Biggie Minnis (20 mpg), Jarelle Reischel (10 mpg) and another kid in Matthew Butler who averaged 8 mpg in 19 games. We announce two transfers who never played meaningful minutes all year and this board has been debating ad nauseum how poor our coaching staff recruits. Danny Hurley, on the other hand, is known as a recruiting wizard, despite the fact that these three guys that he recruited in his first class did not pan out and are leaving. Amazing.
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Post by Jimmy Chitwood on Apr 3, 2015 14:17:07 GMT -5
Rhody just announced three guys leaving the program, including 2 rotation guys in Biggie Minnis (20 mpg), Jarelle Reischel (10 mpg) and another kid in Matthew Butler who averaged 8 mpg in 19 games. We announce two transfers who never played meaningful minutes all year and this board has been debating ad nauseum how poor our coaching staff recruits. Danny Hurley, on the other hand, is known as a recruiting wizard, despite the fact that these three guys that he recruited in his first class did not pan out and are leaving. Amazing. Reischel was a transfer from Rice. Minnie was a transfer from Texas Tech. Oh my god!!!! Rhody obviously has no clue on how to recruit or manage a roster. What the hell is wrong with Hurley? Bring back Baron he can save the Rhody ship!
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Post by route16 on Apr 3, 2015 14:20:51 GMT -5
Rhody just announced three guys leaving the program, including 2 rotation guys in Biggie Minnis (20 mpg), Jarelle Reischel (10 mpg) and another kid in Matthew Butler who averaged 8 mpg in 19 games. We announce two transfers who never played meaningful minutes all year and this board has been debating ad nauseum how poor our coaching staff recruits. Danny Hurley, on the other hand, is known as a recruiting wizard, despite the fact that these three guys that he recruited in his first class did not pan out and are leaving. Amazing. Reischel was a transfer from Rice. Minnie was a transfer from Texas Tech. Oh my god!!!! Rhody obviously has no clue on how to recruit or manage a roster. What the hell is wrong with Hurley? Bring back Baron he can save the Rhody ship! Biggie Minnis is a tough loss in for the A-10's All-Name Team. Good thing Hurley snagged Four McGlynn from Towson to replace Minnis. Four has a certain Seinfeld cache to it.
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