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Post by efsboca on Apr 15, 2014 10:20:35 GMT -5
It is unlikely that D1 athletes will draw a paycheck any time soon. In reality they are already paid via their tuition, room, board and books waivers, which amount to between $35,000 and $60,000 in compensation. I doubt any of these athletes wish to convert this tax free form of compensation to a taxable paycheck from of compensation. Their current package if they take advantage of the opportunities afford them the real return of playing sports at the highest collegiate level and earning a degree and a career. Far more likely is that some teams at various universities will vote to unionize. That is something far different from drawing a paycheck. A union contract with the players of a sports team could issues of terms and conditions of employment, and may not include pay compensation in addition to tuition, room, board and books. The unions aren't backing this for nothing, they have an end game, whether its being able to brainwash the college youth that Obama missed, or just wetting their beak, union leadership that I've been involved with are some of the sleaziest people on earth, like divorce and PI attorneys (I know painted with a broad brush but probably 90% true). They care little for people they supposedly represent. Brian Kelly at Notre Dame was asked about it, and while he said he did not have an opinion either way, he preferred to be in a teacher/coach to player relationship, than an employee-employer relationship. I thought that was well stated. Contracts can cut both ways. I don't think unionizing is the answer, I think the NCAA mandating and punishing teams that don't educate and graduate kids, with loss of scholarships, is the way to go, but the NCAA has to grow a pair before its too late. UNC would be a good place to start.
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Post by Pinnum on Apr 15, 2014 13:57:12 GMT -5
It is unlikely that D1 athletes will draw a paycheck any time soon. In reality they are already paid via their tuition, room, board and books waivers, which amount to between $35,000 and $60,000 in compensation. I doubt any of these athletes wish to convert this tax free form of compensation to a taxable paycheck from of compensation. Their current package if they take advantage of the opportunities afford them the real return of playing sports at the highest collegiate level and earning a degree and a career. Far more likely is that some teams at various universities will vote to unionize. That is something far different from drawing a paycheck. A union contract with the players of a sports team could issues of terms and conditions of employment, and may not include pay compensation in addition to tuition, room, board and books. The unions aren't backing this for nothing, they have an end game, whether its being able to brainwash the college youth that Obama missed, or just wetting their beak, union leadership that I've been involved with are some of the sleaziest people on earth, like divorce and PI attorneys (I know painted with a broad brush but probably 90% true). They care little for people they supposedly represent. Brian Kelly at Notre Dame was asked about it, and while he said he did not have an opinion either way, he preferred to be in a teacher/coach to player relationship, than an employee-employer relationship. I thought that was well stated. Contracts can cut both ways. I don't think unionizing is the answer, I think the NCAA mandating and punishing teams that don't educate and graduate kids, with loss of scholarships, is the way to go, but the NCAA has to grow a pair before its too late. UNC would be a good place to start. When you say 'The NCAA' you really should be saying member universities. There really is no NCAA that schools are beholden to or anything. Schools choose to be a part of the association and the member schools make the policies and agree to follow the policies. The schools, collectively, as an association have hired some people to ensure that the rules are followed but everything is decided by the member schools. If you have a problem with the NCAA then you are saying you don't agree with the collective will of the University administrators. I have found that a lot of people like to blame the NCAA because they either don't understand the reasoning for anything or they really don't want to say that their schools/coach/athlete/whoever is a part of what they don't like.
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Post by efsboca on Apr 15, 2014 14:25:43 GMT -5
The unions aren't backing this for nothing, they have an end game, whether its being able to brainwash the college youth that Obama missed, or just wetting their beak, union leadership that I've been involved with are some of the sleaziest people on earth, like divorce and PI attorneys (I know painted with a broad brush but probably 90% true). They care little for people they supposedly represent. Brian Kelly at Notre Dame was asked about it, and while he said he did not have an opinion either way, he preferred to be in a teacher/coach to player relationship, than an employee-employer relationship. I thought that was well stated. Contracts can cut both ways. I don't think unionizing is the answer, I think the NCAA mandating and punishing teams that don't educate and graduate kids, with loss of scholarships, is the way to go, but the NCAA has to grow a pair before its too late. UNC would be a good place to start. When you say 'The NCAA' you really should be saying member universities. There really is no NCAA that schools are beholden to or anything. Schools choose to be a part of the association and the member schools make the policies and agree to follow the policies. The schools, collectively, as an association have hired some people to ensure that the rules are followed but everything is decided by the member schools. If you have a problem with the NCAA then you are saying you don't agree with the collective will of the University administrators. I have found that a lot of people like to blame the NCAA because they either don't understand the reasoning for anything or they really don't want to say that their schools/coach/athlete/whoever is a part of what they don't like. The NCAA is an association that member schools belong to which rules are set by member schools that some schools do not feel as obligated to follow. The NCAA does have mandatory requirements for a number of rules that get broken consistently by the sports factories (primarily football) such as practice hour limitations, class and grade requirements, and scholarship limitations. Supposedly, one of the reasons the union idea evolved was that kids were tired of taking a scholarship, only to get run off by a coach if he didn't improve (Alabama is a prime example), then you have a school like Tenneessee that signed something like 35 scholarship players (which is only 10 above the "legal" limit, and is even over that when you consider early entries eligible to count against the prior year). There has been plenty to blame the NCAA for. If they enforced the rules as they should across the board, we may not have gotten to this point.
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Post by efsboca on Apr 15, 2014 14:56:24 GMT -5
I still blame all of this on Dave Gavit. If he had not created the Big East for the explicit purpose of ESPN's showing them off, then money may have flowed a little more evenly to smaller schools. The Big East really dominated ESPN early which lead to them becoming the big dogs nationwide. Television as a medium can make or break you, and as a result, the Big East schools got more notoriety, made more money and were able to recruit better players. If ESPN had been used to promote everybody in D-1 across the board (and those universities didn't demolish their academic standards for players), we'd still have some type of level playing field.
For all the talk today of fairness and opportunity, we have a system which provides an opportunity that we let pass for short-term gratification. Its a very sad state of affairs.
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Post by firstdev on Apr 15, 2014 16:35:43 GMT -5
Oh that's right I forgot - union leaders are the sleaze and the corporate Wall Street manipulators and conspirators who nearly destroyed the American economy in 2008 were the white virgins. Millions of American families lost their homes to these corporate raiders, but they are lineal descendants of King Arthur and Knights of the Round Table - Ok. Sounds more like a rant than reality. Unions represent workers, and their leaders are elected, not selected, by the voting membership. Democracy at its finest. Stay tuned - unions are on the move again, can't wait to see who the unionized NU football team elects as its new local leader. The same can not be said for the corporate and banking elites who are busily manipulating the LIBOR rate or conspiring to stash trillions in idle funds with the federal reserve system so the funds can not be lent to struggling individuals or businesses. I have heard the corporate big lie for too long. These are the same "Americans" who stripped the industrial centers of our country of manufacturing jobs, and sent them overseas where these "Americans" could pay slave labor wages, and pocket huge profits at the expense of ordinary American workers and their communities - ever heard of Detroit, Lackawanna, Youngstown, Gary, Johnstown, Homestead, Sharon, Flint, Dunkirk or the South side of Chicago? Oh I forgot again, Obama's the problem. Yea I have heard this right wing garbage before, from the Hoover, Reagan and Bush administrations! How did that work for the American people?
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Post by firstdev on Apr 15, 2014 16:38:34 GMT -5
Good example Olean Tile closed, production moved to Mexico. Result - hundreds of unemployed Bona fans.
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Post by tani on Apr 15, 2014 17:09:41 GMT -5
Majority rules, sucks
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Post by derhut on Apr 16, 2014 8:07:59 GMT -5
1st Dev...you make some strong points..but the ironic component that you are leaving out is that in many of the cities that you have listed above..Youngstown, Gary, South Side of Chicago and Detroit..the Italian Brotherhood looted the hard working, money saving members of the very unions that elected the mobbed up union "leaders" and helped to destroy those cities. I used to think that Newark was the most corrupt city in the country -there is some great reading on how the mob/union chiefs took down the A&P food chain when it was based in NJ..but, New Orleans, Chicago and the whole state of Illinois take the cake when it comes to union-politician-mob incest. Unions are great in theory, but the wrong guys are driving that car - look at how Las Vegas was financed...mobbed up union money...both the dems and repubs are corrupt..but both sides, unfortunately have used union funds-the very funds that belong to the hard working members to finance their BS...I am a card carrying member of the UAW and have seen the good and the bad..the benefits of the union and the strong armed tactics to get the "right" guys elected..Geno Auriemma has some good thoughts on the topic... Auriemma: I think it is kind of funny. I was in a union. I worked in a steel mill and I am actually in a union here at the university -- the American Association of University Professors. I think unions are good, and I think unions are bad. I grew up in a family where my father was in a union his whole life and I have seen the good they can do, and I have also seen how terrible they are, how they breed mediocrity and how they stifle growth. But they are meant to protect people and help people persecuted or taken advantage of by their employer. So I understand the pluses and minuses of it. There is part of me that would like to see the players be paid as employees. That's fine. I don't have a problem with that. But when you are an employee of an organization, then that means when you don't do the job you are fired. You come here on a scholarship, and you can't lose your scholarship generally. I have never seen a kid lose a scholarship just because they were not very good. You have to do something that will cause you to lose your scholarship. Not being a very good player is generally not the reason. So if I recruit you out of high school and I think you can get a double-double and you average four points and two rebounds and you are my employee, then I am going to fire you. So if you are willing to take the money as an employee, then you have to be willing to be fired if you are not any good. Read More: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20140415/geno-auriemma-uconn-huskies-nine-championships-q-and-a/#ixzz2yzLIN3VS
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Post by fjs64 on Apr 16, 2014 8:23:38 GMT -5
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Post by jjjacks17 on Apr 16, 2014 11:13:41 GMT -5
Does this mean that the athletes can just walk in to the RC and take whatever they want and not have to pay or use Bonabucks like the rest of the student body? This is gonna piss some people off...
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Post by firstdev on Apr 17, 2014 8:15:31 GMT -5
All one has to do is just threaten to collectively organize and the NCAA gets a case of the jitters. The latest edict on meal plans for athletes is a case in point. Under discussion from 2011, this new edict will enable the athlete to have access to after hours nutrition, especially when participating in team practices is later than normal commissary hours. Sounds reasonable to me. You will see more of these actions now that the NU football team members are considering unionizing. More power to them, collectively they are much more powerful in advocating for their issues, than they are individually (in single status they can be picked off, disciplined,dismissed and/or marginalized by authoritarian administrators). Unions are just plain good for society, we live in the year 2014, not 1932.
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Post by firstdev on Apr 17, 2014 8:33:51 GMT -5
Most union officials are honest, hardworking and dedicated to protecting the earned rights of working men and women in this country. Are there a few corrupt union officials, sure just as there are corrupt, dishonest, and criminal investment bankers and speculators on Wall Street. Union have made huge contributions to this country since the time of TR and FDR including pushing for social security legislation, medicare coverage, organizational rights in the workplace, advocating for overtime rules, enacting the 40 hour work week, banning child labor, implementing health and safety regulations in the work place, advocating for the 5 day work week, etc., etc. Corporate America was dragged kicking and screaming into that world. These measures have been of immense help to the American middle class even as greedy billionaires continue to conspire to buy elections, destroy our industrial heartland in places like Olean and Buffalo, and export American jobs to Mexico, China and other nations. Union labor on the home front was responsible for producing hundreds of thousands of planes and millions tanks, trucks, guns and other pieces of machinery for our service members on the front lines in World War II. They produced the ships for the largest navy in the history of man, and they accomplished that feat in less than three years of full production. An amazing accomplishment by our union brothers and sisters. Thank God for their dedication. I apologize to no one for the union movement in this country, and neither should any other union brother or sister. The union movement is reall an extension of the philosophical beliefs of our own Franciscan movement, and rightfully so. If unionization comes to NCAA athletics, so be it. Let that be the decision of the athletes, and the athletes only. Go Bonas, beat Canisius.
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Post by firstdev on Apr 17, 2014 8:34:28 GMT -5
Unions....
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Post by tani on Apr 17, 2014 9:58:03 GMT -5
Most of these Union rants Make me shutter... i am still Trying to figure out How to keep My job And the money i worked For.
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Post by firstdev on Apr 17, 2014 13:05:29 GMT -5
tani - Work union live better. Did'nt Wille Long teach you that concept?
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