2 BV Letters in the last edition

[Phantom]

Went to Buffalo State and the enrollment was somewhere around 13,000 (at the time). 85% of the enrollment was commuter...Parking was a HUGE issue, Sooo SBU pales. Their solution to the problem, was to build a large sports complex where the main parking lot was. SBU is not alone there!

[geo]

Generally speaking, I feel these opinion pieces to be rather cowardly since they were apparently made in the last issue of the BV. No chance for response by the present student body, especially their peer-seniors.

I find the complaint about the student who will not graduate "with honors" laughable. Because that student tried real hard she deserve honors? Regardless of her lack of accomplishment? Ridiculous. Ok, it would have been nice to be told you didn't make it in person, not by e-mail, but welcome to the real world, kid.

As far as the plagiarism incident goes, it was my understanding that the administration upheld the professor's ruling. The student received an F. Is that not correct?

Teachers underpaid? If pay is their primary interest and they are worth much more, then why haven't they gone elsewhere? Perhaps I'm wrong, but just maybe they realize what a great deal they have at SBU.

As for the rest, it seems that after spending four years at SBU their biggest complaints include no beer truck, too far of a walk from the parking lot, and the dorms closing 18 hours earlier than they'd like them too. All of the positives they themselves mentioned far outweigh these minor issues.

geo '73

[FroMunga]

I would think their biggest complaint would be how the reputation of the university has changed since they stepped on campus. When these two girls stepped on campus SBU on a national perspective was known for Bob Lanier and a good basketball team back in the 70s. Certainly in different niches of the world, it is known for much more but you don't hear much about the journalism school outside of journalism related discussions. Now I realize the people on this board recognize the school as much more than that, but that is mostly due to their direct ties to the university. Most people in Arizona probably have never heard of SBU. Why? Because it isn't some prestigious university known throughout the world as some of you make it out to be.

Regardless, the university is now known for accepting those with welding certificates, a basketball team that quits/cheats (on the court and in the classroom), and an administration that is totally inept. All the negative press would make me worry if I was about to enter the job market at this time.

Hope the "Good Journey" was worth the price.

[TransplantedBonnie]

I agree that this is a good forum to have people exchange opinions and I am glad that the two ladies made their points and that Fox allowed us to know them and reply as many of us disagree.

With that being said, I am starting to get sick and tired of the constant bashing on this board. My intention to respond to Fox's post here was to stay positive. Instead, it seems the same issue keeps getting brought up and beaten like a dead horse.

The girls said their issues and reputation was not what they said. I am sorry to say kids entering school now don't care or haven't heard of what Bob Lanier has done for SBU. Yes, he's a great name to have, but here is a hint, he was enshrined into the basketball hall of fame in 1992. Incoming freshmen were born in or around 1987. I am pretty sure that name doesn't have the same pull as it did in the 1970s or 80s.

And don't give me that you don't hear of the school outside sports or in their respective fields line either. Just because you don't hear a lot about SBU on the national stage, you can't come back and say you hear a lot about the University of Arizona. If you only read the sports pages and Bandwagon, of course your not going to have a worldly perspective to speak on. And besides sports, name me a few things Arizona's students/faculty have done lately. I can't wait to see what you get from Arizona's homepage (its www.arizona.edu so you don't have to take the time to google)

And, if SBU is brought up amongst its own community, I think that says a lot. SBU has five Pulitzer winners for journalism, just had its recreation sports featured in a national publication with cover feature, and have some of the best kids to graduate with education degrees.

The sad fact is sports run a lot of today's press and with that, scandals sell paper. Kobe's rape accusation, Barry Bonds and steroids, Oklahoma's coach using a racial slur all got press cause its scandalous. Do you now think of Oklahoma as letting biggets coach? The press doesn't focus on the positives such as our softball team earning its first ever postseason berth, instead it goes for the juicier stories such as turmoil.

To worry that your degree is no good is an absolute joke. Are people at Georgia, Fresno State, Baylor feeling the same way? I doubt it. You hire on an individual's qualifications and if they graduate with honors from SBU, I'd say it weighs a little more than a normal degree from the other Big 4 colleges.

I do agree that if a scandal or issue comes to the forefront, this is a good forum to discuss, but some people can't let things go. Talk about the future and how we can change for the positive instead of beating the dead horse. It seems like some of the posts here are compareable to kicking a guy when he's down. Hope all those who keep beating the issues to death can sleep better at night knowing its now 2005, not 2003.

I do agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is a forum for it. However, ever since 2003, this board has turned an ugly head toward negativeness and I ask that we try to change. Most of us feel that SBU is a special place and it seems a few others tend to come here and beat dead horses to boil people's blood. We know we have issues, every school does. Most of us are here to add positives to the forum and think of positive ideas to change them. Also perspective students do read this site, and the more positive we are, the better SBU looks.

The "Good Journey" is worth the price!

P.S. Fro all those who seek kicking a man when he's down, You have Munga!

[FroMunga]

Clearly my post went right over your head. I could have easily picked UB as an example instead of Arizona, but I figured that would start a war of words given the proximity of UB and SBU. Point being the only pub SBU has received the past few years has been negative. When was the last time anybody not associated with SBU (past or present) heard anything positive about the university? I see UB's name all the time in the news for research projects etc. Remember all the fan fare a few years ago when ESPN but the RC on it's list of toughest places to play? You would have thought SBU was getting a Presidential Library on campus the way everyone was bragging about it, some still do today. So now we get to pick and choose what news to discuss.

Although the negative press stems from the athletics department, it spilled over into the educational realm as well. Changing grades speaks of the integrity of the school as a whole. I'm sure several people questioned just what exactly was being taught at the school when word got out. The lessons learned in sports are often transferable into the real world. Letting people quit when the going gets tough or letting them take the easy way out does not reflect well on the university. I'd love to hear your views on that issue if you feel I am wrong. Clearly, there are examples where the basketball team has been given preferential treatment. Would a regular student be advised to drop a class after they were caught cheating? Would a non-basketball player with a welding certificate be admitted to the university? Once again, there is that word “integrity” again. Are you telling me that this doesn’t reflect negatively on the academic integrity of the university?

Now didn't the plagiarism issue come to life in 2005? Are we not allowed to talk about it? I guess if you want to live with your head in the sand, then you can accuse me of kicking someone when they are down. If we are only allowed to talk about the positive things that happen then I guess this place would be very quiet lately.

[mangham]

I'm so glad I don't live in Fro's world!

[sneakers]

I agree wholeheartedly Mangum! I think Fro's getting jilted in his love affair with JVBK has soured his view of the world.

My SBU degree is just fine thank you! It got me into a top notch law school and a series of great jobs in the last 20 years. Although I live in the Boston area and that is a significant distance from Olean, most people I know have heard of SBU and I can think of only one person who has mentioned the basketball scandal brought about by Fro's lover boy.

Basically, an SBU degree coupled with decent grades is good enough to get your foot in the door almost anywhere, but you are then judged on your own merits.

Cheer up Fro! Over 99% of the population is not even aware of any supposed sports scandal at SBU. Life really is not that bad! Now for the small percent of the people who do care (including those on this Board), let’s hope they can turn the ship around and start posting some positive news.

[TransplantedBonnie]

I am quite a sure your post made sense to me. You claim people in Arizona haven't heard SBU. I made the point that You are one person, probably don't live in Arizona, and thusly make a generalization.

I agree UB is in the news a lot becuase they receive a lot of credit for the cancer research and deserve that credit. With that being said, we were in the new two years back after receiving a grant for our science building. We are in the news as two alums have written prominent books recently. We are in the news as the Richter Center was featured in a national recreation magazine. Just because you don't read it, doesn't mean others don't.

You also challenge the degree of SBU with ... ". All the negative press would make me worry if I was about to enter the job market at this time." I am merely making the case that an honors student would likely get a better shot at a job than a normal student with no honors degree. Whether that is Big 4 school or not. And I am sure you're going to comeback with Ivy Schools, so save your breath, they are the exception.

I agree with the ESPN listing of the RC as a bit outdated. But I didn't say pick and choose. I just question the reasoning of dragging things constantly through the mud for two plus years now.

I agree the plagarism case is a major issue, but it brought up a loop hole the university has for a student to get out. And its not like plagirism is a new thing. It goes on in every university across the US and sometimes people get away with it. This issue became a front-page issue because it deals with a student-athlete. Does anyone believe a normal student caught plagarizing would get this attention. Not likely.

But it is brought up that student-athletes get special treatment. I agree that student-athletes are made to go to study hall and get an extra advisor, but that is to assure they are working in the classroom. It was smart thinking of an athletic staff memeber to relaize the loop hole and sadly most other students wouldn't have thought of it. To think that a person's clever thinking is preferntial treatment is not even close. It's good work by an advisor, one every athletics department provides student-athletes.

I agree that sports do help in life and quitting, no matter what, should have some consequences, but on a personal basis. With that said, I am not sure what special treatment these kids get besides a scholarship, some clothing provided for their sport and extra aids to help assure they are doing their work. If there is knowledge of other preferential treatment, I am sure the community would like to know. And please, I don't want to hear so and so said. I want a fact with the name of the person who it occured to and who told the poster on here. Otherwise, its rumor.

As far as a welding certificate, its on the SBU website that says a student is allowed entrance in SBU if he or she meets the requirements. This goes for any junior college transfer, or GED student. SBU accepts on a constant basis students like this. The exception is a student-athlete can not be cleared to play with a certificate, they must graduate with a diploma from the JUCO ranks. But they are cleared to attend class. The scandal occured because several higher-piad SBU persons felt the need to push a welding certificate as a diploma, overpassing NCAA rules. As with allowing students with welding certificates in, I am fine and it doesn't effect integrity of SBU because many, many universities do this.

I never said that the 2005 issues such as plagirism shouldn't be discussed, and I have followed it on here for a while now with no issues. My issue is with the constant rehashing of 2003. No one knows exactly what happened, and everyone involved in the deed are now gone. The fact remains, the 2003 issue is brought up with people saying they have inside info, excpet never to give it and their sources making it rumor. To sit behind a computer and give hearsay is easy to do, but it helps to have fact to make oneself reliable especially if they claim to post truth. And to have no facts and in the meantime say a welding certificate is illegal at SBU two years after the story has occured and not knowing a student can attend college with a certificate is indeed kicking someone when they are down and that's a fact whether my head is in the sand or not.

And to say it would be quiet here is ridiculous. If anyone reads gobonnies.com or a local paper they would know softball made the a-10 tournament for the first time ever and many congrats to Coach Threehouse and his kids. They are not provided many scholarships as with many sports outside basketball at SBU (and other small universities). Baseball is the midst of the playoff-hunt and several women's lacrosse players seem to be earning conference honors.

I guess its easy for some to put ones head in the sand when it comes to finding the positive too!

[FroMunga]

Did you really have to resort to women's softball and lacrosse? How many times have these two activities been mentioned in the past? As I said, it would be quiet.

What are the Big 4 schools you are referring to? Please tell me it's not SBU, UB, Canisius and Niagara.

I guess my latest copy of National Recreation Center Weekly got lost in the mail or else I would be up to date on the press. Forget state of the art technology in the classrooms. We have a state of the art RECREATION CENTER. Yippie! Why not build the science center first? Is recreation that much more important than science?

Anybody have an idea just how many welders SBU has admitted in the past? I can only think of one. Maybe Welder's Weekly could do a cover story to match that of the recreational magazine.

Thank you. You have all been a very kind audience. Good night now.

[TransplantedBonnie]

Yes, lacrosse and softball work just as hard as any other student-athletes. There are more than basketball at SBU and those kids deserve credit, not naysayers that sit back behind their computers knocking them down.

If someone charges that SBU has no national public news then gets the cover of a national publication thrown back at them, maybe they should be a little more humble and give credit that SBU does get attention for positive things.

An alum, unlike the previous poster most likely, gave money to create said center. The loan for the science department is over a time period and is being used to create it and bring in such extras like wireless classrooms. Let it be used as it come sin

I am not sure on how many welders have been accepted, but the point is they are. That disproves the point a welding certificate doesn't get you into college. It does, just doens't allow you to play NCAA athletics.

Good to too see its bedtime for some posters as having their points proven wrong with facts is the new version of Nytol! Sleep well sweet prince.

[FroMunga]

Let's talk about national exposure. I am going to go out on a limb and assume that there hasn't been a recent explosion in the number of subscribers over the past few months. Check out the November 2004 circulation statement for Recreational Sports & Fitness Magazine.

College & Univesity 5,300
High School & Prep School 4,960
Community / Youth 750
Special Centers 915
GRAND TOTAL 11,925

Very Impressive! Ignore the fact that over 40% of this national magazine's circulation goes to other colleges. The real benefit of this exposure will help lure the youngsters to come to SBU. Granted the AD, coach, etc. on the mailing list first would actually have to read the article rather than toss the magazine away before word spread to the prospective student. You certainly can't buy national exposure like this. Now is it a good thing...yes. Will this magazine have an impact on enrollment? Hardly. But if you want to continue to pump up this national exposure go right ahead.
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I didn't say softball and lacrosse playes don't work hard. I just said that if you if we could only talk about positive things this place would be quiet. How many times has anyone even mentioned either of these activities in the past? Do you come to this site to get the latest scoop on the women's lacrosse team?
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I know welders are granted admission if they play basketball but has the school admitted any other welding certificate holders. Just as you stated earlier, give me some names, don't just say that they have without providing any facts.
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By accounts on this board, those tough admissions standards were met by a recent recruit who was denied admission to Rhode Island. Last I checked RIU wasn't an Ivy League School, so I guess that comparison is fair game. Perhaps this recruit has a welding certificate, which in fact would explain everything.
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Please clarify who exactly makes up the Big 4. I've heard of the Big 4 accounting firms but never the Big 4 schools. I'm sure it's been documented in a publication that I don't receive but I'd still like to know for sure. Why do I get the feeling the Big 4 is marketing spin on the Little 3 from back in the day? If that's the case, the Big 4 ain't so big.

[sbu79]

Did you really spend the time to look up the circulation for some trade publication? You are one commited dude! I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time trying to argue with you.

[RDP069]

My comment on these complaints from these two seniors is simple and taken from Rosalita:

Someday, we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny!!

[TransplantedBonnie]

There was a call for asking what news SBU has given lately. I provide a national one. Just because one person doesn't receive a publication, doesn't mean its not out there. Other people do read about the positives at SBU and that is the point. Positive news wanted ... I provided.

Not many people mention other sports besides basketball, but the fact remains they are making great strides and deserve recognition and thusly on here. Whether its by me or someone else. Baseball, tennis and other smaller sports have been talked about the bandwagon before and deserve more attention. To say there is now positive news is in correct. Small or big, its still very positive.

I don't know anyone personally who has a welding certificate, I am merely going by the SBU admissions statements. To claim welder's arren't allowed in the first place was an incorrect assesment and I am merely clarifying that they are, it is up to them to apply.

The new recruit might not have met URI's standards when recruited. He could have passed in the spring by taking other tests or completing courses. After heavy scrutiny of SBU's athletic department, I doubt they are letting in someone without NCAA qualifications.

The Big 4, as stated in previous posts, consists of UB, SBU, Niagara and Canisius. It was created in the sense to allow UB entrance. Yes it is a spin on the Little 3, but most people in Western New York or familiar with SBU athletics, have heard of it. It is hard to believe people hear of "secret socities", but not the Big 4.

I am tired of making factual statements on this link only to have others bully their own spin. I love SBU and the community. If belittling everything on this board and taking welding pot-shots that have beaten to death makes people feel big as they sit behind a screen name, so be it.

GO BONNIES!

[JS]

While some of the gripes that these students have made in thier articles are more legitimate than others, I think something should be noted here; regardless of how some of us personally think, these feelings are pretty wide spread on campus according to those people I know who are still there. An unhappy student population is not something this University needs right now. Yes, we all had our personal issues with the University when we were there, but those situations seem to be growing every year. Not a good sign. I felt that the administration was inept then, and nothing has seemed to change; in fact, it might have gotten worse. When some of the University's own professors are bashing the administration, that's pathetic. It would be easy if the incompetentcy was concentrated in one area of the administration, that problem could be resloved; but its not, it stretches to every area of the administration. Academics Affairs is an easy target right now....George Solan, Security Services, The Career Center is completely worthless and a waste of space, the President herself, the list goes on and on. It is sad to see the seniors kicked out on graduation day, that is absolutely inexcusable. We were rushed when we had to leave the next morning, I can't even imagine the chaos that will be going on this year. The relationship between the University and the students needs to be repaired before it is too late. Get rid of some of the inept employees who are responsible for destroying this relationship, and start anew.