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Post by kcSBU03 on Sept 25, 2015 7:47:14 GMT -5
Oh great, this conversation is going on again
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Post by sneakers on Sept 25, 2015 14:46:51 GMT -5
If we are going to discuss the math on these seats at least use the right numbers. There will be 48 new court-side seats at $710 each. All but two have been sold. That should bring in about $34,000 every year. Another 24 seats will be added to either side of the tunnel (in the blues) and most of them have been spoken for. That should bring in another $12,000 or so.
So, people can argue about whether this change will discourage future students from attending Bonas (I personally think it won't as all the recent surveys of current students list basketball and D1 sports as one of least influential reasons they decided to attend Bonas). However, given the average discount rate of over 55%, it would have to discourage several kids from attending to be a financial loss.
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Post by bva on Sept 25, 2015 22:59:53 GMT -5
Sneakers: While I agree that sitting on the floor (1st row) is a non-factor to 98% of the student population, it only takes one less student per year not enrolling for your math to show a loss after four years (Year 1: $20,000 + Year 2: 2*$20,000 + Year 3: 3*$20,000 + Year 4: 4*$20,000) = $200,000 over 4 years (and that assumes 0% cannibalization).
My problem is why are they only charging $15 per game for these seats, when the market could readily bear $35 per game (plus the tax-deductible BAF contribution that should be a requirement for the privilege)?
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Post by thebonafan08 on Sept 25, 2015 23:53:44 GMT -5
If we are going to discuss the math on these seats at least use the right numbers. There will be 48 new court-side seats at $710 each. All but two have been sold. That should bring in about $34,000 every year. Another 24 seats will be added to either side of the tunnel (in the blues) and most of them have been spoken for. That should bring in another $12,000 or so. So, people can argue about whether this change will discourage future students from attending Bonas (I personally think it won't as all the recent surveys of current students list basketball and D1 sports as one of least influential reasons they decided to attend Bonas). However, given the average discount rate of over 55%, it would have to discourage several kids from attending to be a financial loss. Alright, so i really don't want to have to post this but people like you and Gleason who clearly are arguing with Tims blinders on make it difficult. I don't think anyone has a problem with court side seats or seats anywhere besides in front of students. I am pretty sure most everyone like me thinks the rest of the plan is a good idea. My and nearly everyone's issue is the 20 seats in front of the students. Therefore my math is based on just those 20 seats assuming we keep the rest of the plan. My whole argument is keep all of Tims new seats except the ones in front of the students. Is that clear for you? So as I mentioned in the post.... Just based on 20 seats at 700, yes I rounded down from 710 because I also rounded down the avg. tuition when discount rate is applied. Anyways 710*20= 14,200. One student every 4 years is 18,000. 2 students every 4 years is 36,000. My point is, a unique aspect of Bona and prospective student recruiting pitch such as being court side to any basketball game is more valuable to the school than the 14,000 we would get if all the seats were sold to new ticket holders. All I am saying is if we got one high schooler every 4 years who went to a Bona game with a rowdy on the court student section to come to Bonas in part because of that experience it would be more valuable than a compete sell out of seats in front of student section. If we really were smart or god forbid forward thinking and on the edge we would put the students dead center in front of TV camera on the court, and have half the front row dedicated to high schoolers. Go ahead attack this new point instead of everything I just clarified for you.
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Post by firstdev on Sept 26, 2015 16:01:23 GMT -5
Bottom line here still remains the same. The move of placing premium seats directly in front of student fans was just was an act of hubris that caused unnecessary controversy, when quite frankly none was needed. This act attacked directly the very fans who are the most rabid, devoted, and fanatical. And those are the folks you want to turn off?
Premium seats could have been sold anywhere but in front of student section and caused no controversy, or much less controversy (I am sure flag man would object), but instead TK launched his ill advised initiative without outside input from season ticket holders, student fans (he is only just now meeting with student fans), and alums. Symptomatic of the lack of communication problem.
This is entire issue is a textbook case of FUBAR. His simplistic "safety" argument never had any traction, and was merely a smokescreen. Only now do we learn that 14 seats in the front of the student section will be given to the students on game by game basis. Allegedly the reason for the on floor seats were for "safety" reasons so the students would not have direct access to the floor, but now after the outrage TK will give 14 premium seats to the students who will be, yes you guessed it, on the floor. You speak of twisted logic? A great example of the concept. Pathetic.
There is absolutely no need for SBU to deliberately turn off any constituency group - we need all the support and enthusiasm we can get. Yet that is exactly what they did.
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Post by bbb on Sept 27, 2015 11:01:46 GMT -5
Sneakers: While I agree that sitting on the floor (1st row) is a non-factor to 98% of the student population, it only takes one less student per year not enrolling for your math to show a loss after four years (Year 1: $20,000 + Year 2: 2*$20,000 + Year 3: 3*$20,000 + Year 4: 4*$20,000) = $200,000 over 4 years (and that assumes 0% cannibalization). My problem is why are they only charging $15 per game for these seats, when the market could readily bear $35 per game (plus the tax-deductible BAF contribution that should be a requirement for the privilege)? It's never going to be the main reason for a student enrolling, but it be part of the atmosphere that makes the decision. I'll give my example. I've been saying to my nephew for years that he just has to take a look at the school - that's all I care about. Giving it a chance. So, I take him to the Canisius Saturday night opener when he was a senior in high school (2 years ago). On the way there, he said "I heard the students are right on the court!" At halftime of that great game, with the Wolfpack in top form, I said let's go to the bookstore. I'll buy you a shirt. That way if you don't go here, at least you have the shirt. He said "Oh, I'm going here" Last year, HE was in the front row on the court for EVERY game. It DOES matter, and nobody, or at least I'm not - is arguing about any other seating change that makes up that bigger $ up above. Only this tradition and atmosphere setting one.
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Post by 123Rob on Sept 27, 2015 15:17:31 GMT -5
Got it, so 1 student every 4 years brings in $5,400 more.[/quote]
You really think a student is going to say. "Golly, those evil administrators at Bonaventure put a row of seats in front of the student section. I'm not going there! I'll go to Canisius instead. They have a swell gym. It's almost as nice as my high school. Or "that's it. I'm going to St. John fisher. With a student section of two dozen rabid crazies, I'll get a great seat"
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Post by thebonafan08 on Sept 27, 2015 23:25:09 GMT -5
Got it, so 1 student every 4 years brings in $5,400 more. You really think a student is going to say. "Golly, those evil administrators at Bonaventure put a row of seats in front of the student section. I'm not going there! I'll go to Canisius instead. They have a swell gym. It's almost as nice as my high school. Or "that's it. I'm going to St. John fisher. With a student section of two dozen rabid crazies, I'll get a great seat"[/quote] Yup, that's what I am saying
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Post by kcSBU03 on Sept 28, 2015 8:24:58 GMT -5
This whole thread is 1 giant facepalm
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Post by res on Sept 28, 2015 12:49:55 GMT -5
This whole thread is 1 giant facepalm Not at all. I'm quite confident that if the parties restate their arguments for a minimum of 13 more pages, one side or the other will see the error in their logic and capitulate. That always happens on message boards...
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Post by Bona84 on Sept 28, 2015 12:54:31 GMT -5
This whole thread is 1 giant facepalm Not at all. I'm quite confident that if the parties restate their arguments for a minimum of 13 more pages, one side or the other will see the error in their logic and capitulate. That always happens on message boards... I think we need tman to weigh in on this seating issue.
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Post by firstdev on Sept 28, 2015 15:44:05 GMT -5
Chuck Pollock's article in the OTH on 9/16/15 on page B1, quotes an alum on the issue. Nicely done summary by our fellow frat member, again hopefully TK is reading and listening......time will tell.
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Post by thesenator on Sept 28, 2015 16:53:56 GMT -5
i'm gonna combine 2 posts of recent days into 1 suggested plan of action: take tbf08's idea of allocating half of those first row seats to hs students (read prospective future bonnies) and combine that with "uncle" bbb taking his nephew to the canisius game and now said nephew is a bonnie...so the plan would be half the seats go to hs kids...and the other half go to their mom or dad or, in bbb's case, uncle...of course, if the adult happened to be a bonnie (like bbb) that would be icing on the cake (but it wouldn't be required)...
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Post by bonaman2013 on Sept 28, 2015 19:19:50 GMT -5
Call me crazy, but I honestly don't think this will affect the student section as much as it will the folks in the seats across from the SBU bench. How will the fans in the first row of J, who will be seated, be able to see over the courtside seats? But back to the student section. When I was I student, they made us stand about 3-5 feet away from the sideline, so while you were on the court you still kept away by security guards. From what I understand now, the courtside seats will probably be about a 1 FT - 1.5 FT away from the out of bounds line, if it's anything like other schools that have courtside seats. So in all realty, students will probably be the same distance from the court, but they will have seats in front of them instead of five or six red coats. If you look at this picture from the Xavier game you can tell security was pretty strict on keeping kids a decent amount off the court. assuming they put the seats where the back legs of the chair touch the farthest part of the dark brown outline, it will really not push the students that much farther back. gobonnies.sbu.edu/sports/m-baskbl/2010-11/photos/0011/index#PhotoSwipe1443485447270gobonnies.sbu.edu/sports/m-baskbl/2012-13/photos/0013/index#PhotoSwipe1443485953670The only thing it might impact would be the storming of the court!
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Post by thebonafan08 on Sept 28, 2015 20:32:31 GMT -5
Call me crazy, but I honestly don't think this will affect the student section as much as it will the folks in the seats across from the SBU bench. How will the fans in the first row of J, who will be seated, be able to see over the courtside seats? But back to the student section. When I was I student, they made us stand about 3-5 feet away from the sideline, so while you were on the court you still kept away by security guards. From what I understand now, the courtside seats will probably be about a 1 FT - 1.5 FT away from the out of bounds line, if it's anything like other schools that have courtside seats. So in all realty, students will probably be the same distance from the court, but they will have seats in front of them instead of five or six red coats. If you look at this picture from the Xavier game you can tell security was pretty strict on keeping kids a decent amount off the court. assuming they put the seats where the back legs of the chair touch the farthest part of the dark brown outline, it will really not push the students that much farther back. gobonnies.sbu.edu/sports/m-baskbl/2010-11/photos/0011/index#PhotoSwipe1443485447270gobonnies.sbu.edu/sports/m-baskbl/2012-13/photos/0013/index#PhotoSwipe1443485953670The only thing it might impact would be the storming of the court! I would say that after the seats are in and then security pushes students back from breathing on the people who sit in those seats, you are looking at more than 1.5 feet. But thats hearsay and the distance hardly matters. For me it's not so much the distance that matters. It's the mentality of the athletic department behind the decision. Basically the A-10 asked us to make it an easier environment for other teams to play in and we gave away the only thing that makes the RC unique in doing so. There was no reason to do it end of story. The seats achieve nothing but put a small bump in revenue for Tims department/resume padding. meanwhile big picture the school is losing yet another aspect that makes us unique and another advertising angle for our biggest revenue provider in enrollment.
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