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Post by Chuck on Nov 30, 2009 18:31:30 GMT -5
On the A-10 board, Antboy made the following comment "I have always heard Illinois State has some of the better home cooking around." I checked out Illinois St. games and found some stunning stats. How about this fact. Last year every OOC visiting team with a 500 or winning record had a similar disparity in free throws attempted as the Bonnies. Here are the stats: .............................................Free throws Attempted.............FTA Illinois St. Nicholls State (17-11 record).........10..........................................21 Bowling Green (17-14)..................13..........................................34 Morehead St. (18-16)...................15..........................................31 Illinois Chicago (15-15)...................5..........................................25 Totals........................................43........................................111 How about this year? Bonnies are the only team with a winning record to visit Illinois St. It will be interesting to see the stats for Illinois State's game against Niagara in 2 weeks. Found it interesting in home games against teams with losing records there was not a disparity in free throws attempted. sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=2287&year=2009warrennolan.com/basketball/2009/schedule/Illinois%20State
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Post by orangehater on Nov 30, 2009 20:52:15 GMT -5
Nice work. Pleeease post on the redbirdfan forum. They won't shut up about how bad the calls were...against them.
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Post by b4life on Nov 30, 2009 22:41:28 GMT -5
Nice research Chuck. Those are some absurd numbers. It's not like Ill. State some storied program that you expect a little ref bias. I don't get it.
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pepp
Sophomore Member
Posts: 145
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Post by pepp on Nov 30, 2009 23:02:52 GMT -5
While I agree the numbers are more than a trend, how many times have we told opposing fans on this board to "beat it" after we beat them. Such actions just contribute to the "holier than thou" mentality on here. Disagree with the officiating as much as we want but you won't accomplish anything by flaming the oppostions msg board afterward. SBU lost the game and as fans we have to accept it and move on.
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Post by thebonafan08 on Nov 30, 2009 23:03:40 GMT -5
Nice work. Pleeease post on the redbirdfan forum. They won't shut up about how bad the calls were...against them. haha ya...who is GOBONNIES...he could use some help over there. Those guys are crazy they all think they are some amazing program and the MVC is the Big East in disguise.
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Post by wgt on Dec 1, 2009 0:06:07 GMT -5
I’m sure that Coach Schmidt has moved on from the Illinois loss & is working on making the team better. Certainly can’t dwell on the disparity in fouls called on Sunday. That can happen in any game. However the information provided by Chuck is very compelling in questioning a disturbing trend in many games. It should merit a review by the MVC & hopefully Niagara doesn’t fall victim in continuing this pattern. The Red Bird's Home Court stats are STUNNING!
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Post by ltbf on Dec 1, 2009 5:27:51 GMT -5
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Post by West End Stench on Dec 1, 2009 8:15:46 GMT -5
Good find Chuck. Very interesting...
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Post by mcspin on Dec 1, 2009 9:06:38 GMT -5
Those are interesting stats and certainly raise an eyebrow. However, I did not see the game and I certainly know that some teams are very good at not fouling, while at the same time, drawing fouls. Just like some teams are better outside shooters or better foul shooters. Maybe they fall into this category. Without seeing the game, I couldn't possible say that the bias is any worse there, but the stats sure make you wonder.
By the way, not counting the preseason game and counting the St Johns game, we have been called for 33 fouls at home and our opponents 58. A certain amount of "home cooking" seems to be quite common.
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Post by haygood on Dec 1, 2009 9:27:02 GMT -5
It would be interesting to do the same comparison with our stats vs visitors to the RC. You know the refs keep an eye on the "other score"...our fouls vs their fouls. I sat front row @ the Binghamton game and applauded the refs at about the 8 min mark in the first half as it was 2 & 2 on fouls...low numbers and even both ways. He looked at me and winked and said "don't jinx us".
They pay attention and know the "score".
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Post by kcSBU03 on Dec 1, 2009 12:26:09 GMT -5
It would be interesting to do the same comparison with our stats vs visitors to the RC. You know the refs keep an eye on the "other score"...our fouls vs their fouls. I sat front row @ the Binghamton game and applauded the refs at about the 8 min mark in the first half as it was 2 & 2 on fouls...low numbers and even both ways. He looked at me and winked and said "don't jinx us". They pay attention and know the "score". I referee so I have some perspective on this. First off, I pay attention to the foul count more than the score. That does not mean I let the foul count influence my calls. It just means that if there is a disparity (say 6-2), I might lay off a cheap one against the team with 6 fouls. I wont go making a call against the lesser penalized team just to get the count even. I am also in the minority there. Most refs will look for calls to get it even to get the coaches off their back. My reply when a coach whines about the foul differential is "tell your kids to stop fouling". College is much different though, the home cooking is unfortunately more prevalent than in the high school level and it is way more political the higher up you get. Even Varsity high school politics come into play so I cant imagine what happens at the D 1 level in College. From the sounds of it, we really got jobbed a bit but there is nothing that we can do about it.
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Post by spils84 on Dec 1, 2009 14:17:41 GMT -5
Fair assessment on the issue by KC. I too officiate HS and college basketball, and I most certainly know when there is an imbalance on the team fouls, even before it is brought to my attention. To calm down a coach, I might look for an illegal screen or something that is a genuine foul, but something that I might not call at a different point in a game. Also, if I am going to have one coach upset with my performance, it will be the coach from the out of state college, who I may not see again for 3 years. That's just human nature. Having said that, there is never an excuse for calling fouls that are just not there.
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Post by adolphlottin on Dec 1, 2009 17:19:31 GMT -5
I understand it is in the official's best interest to keep the number of fouls close to even. At the same time, I don't understand it. If one team is able to draw more fouls than the other, they shouldn't be penalized for it. And if one team is fouling more than the other, they should be penalized for it. I don't think refs should be conscious of the foul numbers at all. They should officiate the game the same way the whole way through.
Also spils, I know the State College coach fairly well and other HS and college coaches well. The State College coach is on another level. He's a helluva competitor. Inconsolable after losses. That's part of why they have a good program.
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Post by sony on Dec 1, 2009 17:44:18 GMT -5
Blew the whistle for more than twenty years, the only "score" I was interested in was when are we one away from the bonus/double bonus - and the scorer would always let us know. Sorry , you should not be doing "math" or playing politics when you're calling a game. If its a foul you blow it!
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Post by efsboca on Dec 1, 2009 19:33:21 GMT -5
I understand it is in the official's best interest to keep the number of fouls close to even. At the same time, I don't understand it. If one team is able to draw more fouls than the other, they shouldn't be penalized for it. And if one team is fouling more than the other, they should be penalized for it. I don't think refs should be conscious of the foul numbers at all. They should officiate the game the same way the whole way through. Also spils, I know the State College coach fairly well and other HS and college coaches well. The State College coach is on another level. He's a helluva competitor. Inconsolable after losses. That's part of why they have a good program. Adolph, I agree with you in theory, but I don't think it jibes with the reality in this case. If you look at the foul stats that Chuck posted, I would find in curious that Ill State is so adapt at drawing fouls from winning teams on its schedule. You'd figure they would be able to draw more fouls on the poorer teams, not the better ones. Alas, there is no proof, but my guess is they are not calling the ticky tac fouls on the home squad as much in those games.
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