pbd76
Junior Member
Posts: 378
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Post by pbd76 on Jan 4, 2017 15:07:46 GMT -5
kc03 - "there are still only a certain number of students that can attend the SUNY schools and that will not change." what exactly do you mean by that and how do you figure that wont change? just interested and wondering.... What I mean is UB can only handle x students. Unless they get a ton of money to add dorms, they wont be admitting more than x in any year. If they do get money for dorms,classrooms..etc, where is it coming from? To expand on my last post....the 125k threshold also needs to be remembered. A kid growing up in the nyc area will not come from a household that is under 125k. Starting salaries in NYC are in the 90-100k range to give some perspective. This initiative will help kids who come from financially bad situations but they still need to be accepted into the school. Its not like the kid barely getting by in high school will suddenly be able to go to college for free, he/she will still have to earn their way in. I just dont think this would be as big of a deal for Bonas. With the financial aid many kids get here, they will still come. Actually, according to US census data, the median household income in the five boroughs is between $45K and $75K, depending on which one you are talking about. So there are plenty of NYC kids who would qualify. $125K is actually a pretty high threshold, especially if family assets aren't taken into account. And as to Pinnum's point, there isn't really that much of an admission cap if the schools focus on commuter students. While highly unlikely to pass, this could have a very negative effect on private school applications/enrollments.
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Post by bonaman2013 on Jan 4, 2017 15:08:22 GMT -5
"A kid growing up in the nyc area will not come from a household that is under 125k. Starting salaries in NYC are in the 90-100k range to give some perspective."
There's quite a few Bonaventure students from NYC that don't fit that narrative. If you're talking recruiting suburban NYC private schools that might be the case, but it's hardly the norm for most students in NYC to come from families that affluent. Many will be under that $125,000 threshold.
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Post by 123Rob on Jan 4, 2017 15:32:27 GMT -5
Free free free free free, Crazy Andy is INSANE
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Post by towniegrad on Jan 4, 2017 15:34:12 GMT -5
Don't think bona should worry too much . bona and suny are not really competing for the same students. Bona is offering a small private catholic school experience in a safe rural environment and suny is not.
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Post by Pinnum on Jan 4, 2017 15:37:40 GMT -5
54 percent of CUNY (City University of New York) students come from a household with an income of less than $30,000. There are half a million students attending CUNY.
In NYC, rent assistance programs and rent control have made comparing household incomes meaningless and nearly impossible.
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Post by agoo on Jan 4, 2017 15:37:41 GMT -5
What I mean is UB can only handle x students. Unless they get a ton of money to add dorms, they wont be admitting more than x in any year. If they do get money for dorms,classrooms..etc, where is it coming from? To expand on my last post....the 125k threshold also needs to be remembered. A kid growing up in the nyc area will not come from a household that is under 125k. Starting salaries in NYC are in the 90-100k range to give some perspective. This initiative will help kids who come from financially bad situations but they still need to be accepted into the school. Its not like the kid barely getting by in high school will suddenly be able to go to college for free, he/she will still have to earn their way in. I just dont think this would be as big of a deal for Bonas. With the financial aid many kids get here, they will still come. Actually, according to US census data, the median household income in the five boroughs is between $45K and $75K, depending on which one you are talking about. So there are plenty of NYC kids who would qualify. $125K is actually a pretty high threshold, especially if family assets aren't taken into account. And as to Pinnum's point, there isn't really that much of an admission cap if the schools focus on commuter students. While highly unlikely to pass, this could have a very negative effect on private school applications/enrollments. There is an admission cap for commuter schools. There are only so many seats in classrooms and only so many faculty to teach in those rooms. There's also the practical consideration that there are only so many potential commuters in less populated areas like Geneseo, Alfred, and Plattsburgh. Depending on how this would work, coupled with an anticipated reduction in federal spending on education under the next president, could also see schools opening more to out-of-state students who will be paying at a higher rate, or higher-income students from New York.
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Post by agoo on Jan 4, 2017 15:41:51 GMT -5
Something to note, college educated people make more money over their lives than non-college educated people. This means they also spend more money and pay more in taxes. When I was at Bona's and working with the HEOP program, one stat that was referenced often was that graduates paid back their scholarship money (a nearly full-ride, with room and board) 300% over the course of their working lives.
Providing college education is a long-term investment that pays off.
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Post by Pinnum on Jan 4, 2017 15:46:51 GMT -5
Don't think bona should worry too much . bona and suny are not really competing for the same students. Bona is offering a small private catholic school experience in a safe rural environment and suny is not. While that is partly true... What is the premium a student (or their parents) will pay for that difference? Will they pay $1k more a year? $5k more a year? $20k more a year? Also, there are alternatives to Bonas. When you give up on state support, you're not restricted to going to only in-state schools. Which then makes places like Stubenville, St Francis, and others in play for students. While I tend to be opposed to state support of higher education, I prefer programs like Georgia's HOPE scholarship or New York's TAP which are available for attending any public or private school in the state.
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Post by Pinnum on Jan 4, 2017 15:48:44 GMT -5
Something to note, college educated people make more money over their lives than non-college educated people. This means they also spend more money and pay more in taxes. When I was at Bona's and working with the HEOP program, one stat that was referenced often was that graduates paid back their scholarship money (a nearly full-ride, with room and board) 300% over the course of their working lives. Providing college education is a long-term investment that pays off. Correlation is not causation.
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pbd76
Junior Member
Posts: 378
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Post by pbd76 on Jan 4, 2017 15:54:49 GMT -5
Don't think bona should worry too much . bona and suny are not really competing for the same students. Bona is offering a small private catholic school experience in a safe rural environment and suny is not. While that is partly true... What is the premium a student (or their parents) will pay for that difference? Will they pay $1k more a year? $5k more a year? $20k more a year? Also, there are alternatives to Bonas. When you give up on state support, you're not restricted to going to only in-state schools. Which then makes places like Stubenville, St Francis, and others in play for students. While I tend to be opposed to state support of higher education, I prefer programs like Georgia's HOPE scholarship or New York's TAP which are available for attending any public or private school in the state. Important point about TAP: would NY do away with TAP to partly fund this new program?
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Post by agoo on Jan 4, 2017 16:00:04 GMT -5
Something to note, college educated people make more money over their lives than non-college educated people. This means they also spend more money and pay more in taxes. When I was at Bona's and working with the HEOP program, one stat that was referenced often was that graduates paid back their scholarship money (a nearly full-ride, with room and board) 300% over the course of their working lives. Providing college education is a long-term investment that pays off. Correlation is not causation. Correct. But that doesn't change the statistic. HEOP graduates, meaning students who received a nearly full scholarship from New York State to attend institutions within the state, paid that money back 3 times over in the course of their working careers on average.
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Post by tastylicks on Jan 4, 2017 16:07:32 GMT -5
While that is partly true... What is the premium a student (or their parents) will pay for that difference? Will they pay $1k more a year? $5k more a year? $20k more a year? Also, there are alternatives to Bonas. When you give up on state support, you're not restricted to going to only in-state schools. Which then makes places like Stubenville, St Francis, and others in play for students. While I tend to be opposed to state support of higher education, I prefer programs like Georgia's HOPE scholarship or New York's TAP which are available for attending any public or private school in the state. Important point about TAP: would NY do away with TAP to partly fund this new program? I would think they would probably have to do away with TAP right? What is the point of offering financial assistance for students attending NYS schools if you are just going to let them go for free to the public schools now?? That, too would probably hurt Bonaventure. For the local kids, no more TAP, state schools are free.... bona a tough sell. I would think Bona would have to commit to recruiting more out of state to compete
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Post by Pinnum on Jan 4, 2017 16:16:15 GMT -5
Correlation is not causation. Correct. But that doesn't change the statistic. HEOP graduates, meaning students who received a nearly full scholarship from New York State to attend institutions within the state, paid that money back 3 times over in the course of their working careers on average. Which is proof that students can manage their own finances. Capital markets are able to provide for students and help act as a check to ensure that there is a return to students. State funding just drives up the cost of education and leads to more waste.
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Post by firstdev on Jan 4, 2017 16:23:33 GMT -5
Free free free free free, Crazy Andy is INSANE Could not agree more. This is Governor Dark Prince at his worst, adopting a highly political socialistic "free" tuition program, with no source of counter balancing revenue. In effect mandating higher NYS income taxes or drastic reductions in essential state services, all to feed his insatiable desire for national office (his aim clearly being a 2020 run as the new "progressive" hope, now that Hillary is officially retired and Bernie is aging out). The end result to his higher NYS tax philosophy will be more folks moving out of state, and more graduates looking for jobs in the other 49 states of the union. My feeling is students who have actual skin in the game appreciate their college education in a deeper sense than those without a financial commitment. I worked in the steel plant and took out loans to complete my Bonas education and you know what - I have truly cherished that education for ever. Will this have an impact on Bonas? Hard to tell at this point - some SUNY schools already have a virtual open admission policy (Buffalo State being one prime example), and are really maxed out in classroom and dorm spacing (Buffalo State rents dorm space from Canisius and Medialle Colleges). As with all open admission colleges the drop out rate is significant. Besides Bonas offers a different, better experience that the SUNY colleges - small class sizes, approachable faculty, beautiful campus, individual attention, strong alum network, and a great Catholic/Franciscan experience. Superior in every way.
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Post by bva on Jan 4, 2017 16:42:09 GMT -5
Correlation is not causation. Correct. But that doesn't change the statistic. HEOP graduates, meaning students who received a nearly full scholarship from New York State to attend institutions within the state, paid that money back 3 times over in the course of their working careers on average. Inflation-adjust these $$$ and you're probably breakeven at best! For example: In today's $: $40,000 x 4 = $160,000 investment. What is NYS middle-income tax rate (assume 6%)? Average career annual salary of $80,000 x 6% x 30 or 40 years = $150000 to $200,000 (then dilute that by future inflation). Furthermore, most HEOP students going into low-paying social services/education; not Wall St or high technology.
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