Pllllllease

[rimRocka44]

sneakers said:

Right or wrong, the folks making decisions about where a kid should go to school (including parents, coaches, guidance counselors, etc.) equate academic standards with a strong alumni network, an ability to get a good job out of college, the ability to succeed in their careers, etc. Being a Boston businessman I cannot argue with that. Alumni of schools such as BC, Holy Cross, Babson and BU (not to mention MIT and Harvard) have extremely strong alumni networks and they look after their graduates for their entire careers. Employers automatically have a positive disposition to hire these graduates as the academic reputation of their schools rub off on their graduates.

Alumni should look out for each other and Bona alumni do just that. Have you ever heard of the Bonaventure Alumni Network? This is a pretty strong network as well and in places other than Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse. I know of many in Chicago, New York City, DC, Charlotte, Boston and all over that have attained their employment through Bonaventure alumni. I know I got my job through a Bona alum and so did 5 others here in the past 2-3 years. (Heck they flew me down for the interview basically just to make sure I fully intended to relocate and offered me the job based on the work of other Bona alumni). Have a little more faith in your university and practice what you preach. Help a brother or sister out.

[DemBonnies]

keystone said:

I guess I am a little biased when I hear all this talk about our low academic standards, I was a finance major and a MBA at Bonas and I feel our program is very strong compared to the other business majors I work with. I don't really know which programs everyone is claiming are weak but most of my business major friends are doing pretty well.

Agreed...I see many alumni from the 70/80's time frame at or near the top of the food chain in the corporate environment.

Sam Molinari--Bear Stearns
Tom Marra--The Hartford Group
Jim Marchiony--NCAA
Chris LaPlaca--ESPN

I don't know when Neil Cavuto got out of Bonas but certainly there is name recognition there.

The folks that got out in the late 90's/early 00's are just climbing the ladders now but to say carte blanche that just because we grab everyone that applies doesn't mean that a poor education follows.

It's sort of like the floor debate...I don't see the need for new hardwood in the Reilly Center but somebody in athletics is pushing for this.

As Bonafide points out there is a SERIOUS need for living quarters upgrades.

[cosmonautlaunchpad]

rimrocka44 said:

sneakers said:

Right or wrong, the folks making decisions about where a kid should go to school (including parents, coaches, guidance counselors, etc.) equate academic standards with a strong alumni network, an ability to get a good job out of college, the ability to succeed in their careers, etc. Being a Boston businessman I cannot argue with that. Alumni of schools such as BC, Holy Cross, Babson and BU (not to mention MIT and Harvard) have extremely strong alumni networks and they look after their graduates for their entire careers. Employers automatically have a positive disposition to hire these graduates as the academic reputation of their schools rub off on their graduates.

Alumni should look out for each other and Bona alumni do just that. Have you ever heard of the Bonaventure Alumni Network? This is a pretty strong network as well and in places other than Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse. I know of many in Chicago, New York City, DC, Charlotte, Boston and all over that have attained their employment through Bonaventure alumni. I know I got my job through a Bona alum and so did 5 others here in the past 2-3 years. (Heck they flew me down for the interview basically just to make sure I fully intended to relocate and offered me the job based on the work of other Bona alumni). Have a little more faith in your university and practice what you preach. Help a brother or sister out.

Rimrocka is 100% correct. As a matter of fact, while in a meeting with my branch chief the other day he made this quote, "I've been extremely impressed with the work ethic and business knowledge that you Bonaventure graduates possess."

Keep in mind this is an office that hires students from large universities all over the country, and we seem to stand out. So gripe all you want about admission rates, but the educations we are receiving, at least from the school of business are pretty damn good.

[keystone]

dembonnies said:

I don't know when Neil Cavuto got out of Bonas but certainly there is name recognition there.

The folks that got out in the late 90's/early 00's are just climbing the ladders now but to say carte blanche that just because we grab everyone that applies doesn't mean that a poor education follows.

I had no idea Neil Cavuto went to Bonas, I am assuming you are talking about the one from Fox news. I will have to catch his show more often.

Maybe there are some programs that need more boosting then others I really don't know without more info, I am just cautious to throw the school of business in there because I know I am not the only one who holds it in high regard. But nothing is perfect either.

Speaking of academics does anyone remember back in maybe 02 the school of business had us all take this test that business majors from all over the country from about 1,000 schools took? If I remember correctly Bonas overall scored in the 90 something percentile our first year taking it. Who knows what schools were included but I remember them making a big deal about it at the time.

[MIKE MACALUSO]

to add to the comments of dembonnies...plenty of brown indian alums on wall street..the callahan bros, jimmy mahoney, frank higgins, the quick family, brian saunders...labron james' publicity chief is a sbu alum..also a ton in the education field.

[sburizz]

Everybody is bringing up some really good points and when I think why I went to Bonas it was primarily after talking to alumni and visiting the campus. We do need more appealing dorms but our recruiting office needs to be revamped. I would never have heard of SBU if it weren't for my dentist. Change the strategy and really go after students and SBU will be back to having huge freshman classes. hopefully we'll get some good bball players in those classes also.

[DemBonnies]

keystone said:

I had no idea Neil Cavuto went to Bonas, I am assuming you are talking about the one from Fox news. I will have to catch his show more often.

I just checked the on-line Bona Community and was shocked to see 1980...I think he looks younger than that.

If you're an early riser they replay the afternoon show around 5:00AM or so the following day.

[sneakers]

cosmonautlaunchpad said:

Sneakers,
I agree with what you are saying in most of your message, but the point that you or others have failed to make is that how does having a high acceptance rate = low academic standards? So maybe admissions aren't that picky. But once a student is accepted, I think the academic standards they are held to are on par with other universities.

And Universities should assist students with employment. And as a recent grad, Bonaventure does a fine job of this. But most of the responsibility in finding employment falls on the student. It is their responsibility to find interviews and most importantly network.

And there seems to be a conflict with your stance. Everyone says not enough students are enrolling, yet in the same breath you seem to be saying the Univeristy needs to be more selective. Before the University could ever get more selective, while maintaining enrollment, they need to increase their marketing efforts. That's something I definitely agree with.

Cosmo

Thanks for the civil response. I understand what you are saying and agree to some extent, but I don't think that is how potential students and their families look at things.

You can substitute "high acceptance rates" with "low academic standards" each place it occurs in my post above and I'd stand by it. Right or wrong, the people who make decisions about where a kids applies and decides to go to college equate the two. Everyone looking at selecting a college buy those big thick guides to colleges. They use them to compare colleges in categories like acceptance rates, average GPA, average SAT scores, etc. and they equate those statistics with academic standards. Sadly, it actually matters less what the school's academic standards actually are, than what they are perceived to be by the public.

That said, although there are certainly individual exceptions, the truth is that if a school's student body is made up of students who have a B+ average in high school and high SAT scores they will likely be able to handle more difficult work than a student body with a C average and low SAT scores. The former students can absolutely be held to higher academic standards.

As far as the school assisting its students with employment, SBU probably does what it can (although as a person who hires quite a few people each year, I have not found them to be particularly helpful). However, I wasn't talking about what colleges do to help their alumni succeed after graduation, I was talking about what great alumni networks can do. One big disadvantage SBU has is that its alumni tend to scatter to many different cities which makes each SBU network very small in each city (with the exception of maybe Buffalo). Holy Cross alums, for example, have almost automatic interviews with any company that has another Holy Cross alum in management. The alums have it ingrained in their heads that they assist other alums ( as they also were assisted) when asked to do so. They look out for each other. This is true for many of these schools

BC is the same thing. My firm (a hedge fund/investment company in Boston) hires smart college graduates. My two partners are both BC alum and over 50% of our employees are BC alumni. Is this a coincidence? No. They receive BC resumes forwarded to them almost daily. The positions that we hire for pay very well (everyone makes a 6 digit income after they've been here a year or two) and most of the hiring is based on college networks. That is just the way it happens.

When I tried to see if I could attract resumes from SBU alumni, either for a full time position here or for internships that might lead to such a position, I was unsuccessful. There was really no place I could go to find these people. The school said that summer interns don't want to go, or can't afford to go, to Boston for the summer (although it is a paid internship). When looking to fill a full-time Controller position I looked for SBU alums as there are a lot of smart accounting grads. I needed a CPA with 3 to 7 years experience (hundreds of these people exist), but the school said they do not keep track of alums that might be looking for jobs. (If I called the BC placement office I would get dozens of resumes.)

I totally agree with your last paragraph. This is a difficult problem. We obviously can't be more selective right now or we would not have enough students to generate the revenue we need to run the school. This is something that will take 10 years or more to fix. However it is important to start now to market the school better, get our message to the right population of students and make the school more attractive to this target population.

Applying to college is not dissimilar in many ways to dating. A little selectivity and playing "hard to get" will attract more potential dates (or students). To make that work though you need something special to offer. You need to have good looks (i.e. nice facilities), brains (i.e. high academic standards), money (i.e. good career prospects), fun personality (i.e. great activities and atmosphere), or entertainment (i.e. sport programs, theater, etc.). You may not need to hit a home run in all of these categories, but the more you have the more applicants that will be attracted. We obviously don't seem to have our mojo currently. That is why I favor improvements to the physical plant and the addition of new sports programs and activities. For example, I think just adding a sport like men's lacrosse would bring in 50 new students who are dead-set on playing lacrosse in college and wouldn't even consider a college that didn't offer this. The extra tuition revenue generated by these students would be much more than the cost of establishing this program. Do a several things like that and we can start to play a little "hard to get" and applications will increase and we can then be more selective. This become a cycle, as being more selective will lead to even more applications in subsequent years.

That's my 2 cents.

[DemBonnies]

Boy...here's a time when I wish Dem=Sneakers----6 figure income after 1 to two years.

Sneakers..I am available for adoption.

I think to a lesser extent the Bonnie network for hiring exists
too...I just don't think from the school standpoint that we keep tabs on grads like other institutions do.

BC and HC are cutting edge when it come to that. I know a BC grad in commercial real estate locally and he's all over that when he's looking for people.

[cosmonautlaunchpad]

Sneakers,

I agree the University could do more to help their students get hired. In addition to my regular duties where I work, I do recruiting as well. I'm not in a position to offer jobs, but I conduct informal interviews to guage eligibility and pass resumes on to supervisors that are hiring. I reached out to some of my old business professors when I first received this recruiting gig and let them know that I was in a position to help interested students apply and gain employment within the federal government. Since then I have received a whopping 0 resumes.

[sneakers]

keystone said:

Is academic standards and high admission rate the same thing? Can't you raise the quality of academic programs and still have high admission rates? My opinion is that they are separate issues and we can raise academic standards and keep admission rates high which would both be beneficial.

I guess I am a little biased when I hear all this talk about our low academic standards, I was a finance major and a MBA at Bonas and I feel our program is very strong compared to the other business majors I work with. I don't really know which programs everyone is claiming are weak but most of my business major friends are doing pretty well.

I agree that we do need a stronger alumni network though, we tried to get involved in our network down here in the DC area and it seems like they really don't do anything. There are about 15 of us here that were friends in college and would be more then willing to be more involved as well. Better leadership for the local chapters would go a long way

Keystone

I agree that the business program has high academic standards and lots of alums have done very well. Other programs might as well. What concerns me is the perception of high school students and their partents as to what our academic standards are. They get their facts from viewing these college guides where our high acceptance rates, low GPAs and SATs hurt our chances of having them apply (or having them apply to SBU as a "safety school" and deciding to go eslewhere) I think our best marketing is our alumni base. If our alumni do well, the school benefits. However, we need more than just that. We need to have more attractive programs a facilities face lift and a more active targeted marketing program to high schools that would have likely applicants. If they know our name before they start looking for colleges, that is a huge step forward. The rest needs to be addressed over time.

[dabonnies]

Bevelators and Old-Timers having a peaceful, intelligent conversation? I never thought I'd see the day.

[DemBonnies]

Sneakers...one of the things you've left out though is what is the median family income of folks attending BC, HC and Prov vs. SBU.

I have to believe there is a chasm there. I think that Muffy and Erin's and Tad's dad with their large and prosperous old boy network do a far better job watching out for their privileged friends of BC,PC & HC than the medium-upper working class folks that head to Bonas.

Many of the crusty New England school folks, especially in the Greater Boston area, may be in a better position to pull the hiring strings than Bona grads

[cosmonautlaunchpad]

dabonnies said:

Bevelators and Old-Timers having a peaceful, intelligent conversation? I never thought I'd see the day.

GROUNDBREAKING!!

[keystone]

All good points Sneakers, and I remember my mom having all of those books when I was applying to colleges and reading all that info as well. I guess being somewhat local we just always viewed Bonas as being above the other choices in the area but obviously as you point out not everyone sees it that way.

We actually have the same problem with finding graduates. We could have filled a few positions with Bona alumni but there were none to be found. I fully expect that Bona alums would help each other out just like you said other schools do but we just don't have the network for it. Maybe that is something we can help with though. Cosmo and I tried to get involved in the DC chapter of alumni but so far they have not organized anything in a few years that I have heard of, we should look into it again though and try to make something happen here. A stronger alumni network could be very beneficial for the University.

So it seems to me like we have a communication problem between alums, students, and the University. What if something we could do is create a place specifically for networking. You were successful here creating a large on-line community, and despite certain people not believing it we were successful creating the Bevel community. What if we came together to create a on-line networking site for the entire Bonas community? We can agree to leave what is discussed on the Bevel there, and sports here but it could be a place for students to post resumes and get advice and alumni to network and advertise events as well. It would be easy to envision a site with sections for different alumni chapters to organize events which would make the chapters stronger as well. I think we all know we will never get the University to endorse the Bevel and it isn't the topics you want here but I could see it being easy to get the chapters to get involved and the University as well just by a few of us using our connections. Instead of just discussing it we should do something about it. Any thoughts?