I disagree with Solomons comments in OTH

[Chuck]

Vinny has an article in today's Olean Times Herald titled "Solomon still repairing SBU legacy." Hopefully OTH will provide a link tomorrow. In the article Solomon states "we didn't start at zero two years ago. That was below zero and that's real."

First of all I would not call a lineup with Marques Green, Patrick Lottin, Mo Young and Ahmad Smith as being below zero. As seniors, Marques and Mo were both listed among the top 125 recruits. Even after enduring a 2 win season the Bonnies still had an average attendance of 4,186. Despite a disappointing season the A-10 still remains as one of the higher rated basketball conferences.

Alcorn State (a team we beat) is a team I would list as being below "below zero." They list only one assistant coach. At a home game against Texas State they had a reported attendance of 63 people. Next home game against Arkansas Baptist they had 150. They belong to a conference called the SWAC and it must be a lousy conference, because they have 4 teams listed in the bottom 15 of Pomeroy's RPI rankings.

The Bonnies and Solomon have many advantages over the teams they are currently ranked with in the RPI's. Even Niagara who had a 20 win season , had only 2,400 in attendance against their cross town rival Canisius. In comparison the Reilly Center would be sold out for every game.

The Bonnies advantages of history, A-10 and especially their loyal fans are being too easily dismissed by Solomon. I would like to see any other mid major school average over 4,000 fans after a 2 win season.

Here is a link to Alcorn States website (where I found the above information)

www.alcornsports.com/sport_m_basketball.php?act=schedule_results

[jh]

Chuck...Solomon started at a terrible time...you are one of the few in the country to not admit this...why>>?
We all saw Mo Young play....he was not top 125 caliber...Gansey,Brown,Burch,etccc all s left the program...only seniors stay....which was marques green...its always the 2nd year that is most difficult...seniors have left...underclassmen have transferred...and no incoming prosepects wish to join....why is this so hard to explain??? Losing at home to Niagara by 35 was 'starting below zero'.......it appears Sol has pulled us out of this with his recruiting and likely will continue to do so....
What is incredible...and for some reason reluctant to be written here....is that the recruiting class Sol has brought in....on the rebound of a 2-28 season....is super !!!!.....and we should thank him and the staff for the hard work they have done.....
You think they had to battle any negative recruiting the last 2 years???

[Chuck]

I''ll be the first one to admit Solomon started at a terrible time, but it was not anything near "below zero." Below zero are teams with attendance in the hundreds and not thousands, school budgets which allows for only 1 assistant coach, players on a team that was never considered by even a mid major. This does not describe Solomon's situation with the Bonnies, but it describes teams from the SWAC and MEAC. I think it is inaccurate to say it is justified for the Bonnies to be ranked in the bottom of the RPI's with teams I would truly describe as being below zero.

JH your comment "you think they had to battle any negative recruiting the last two years" well is it not odd that the Bonnies signed Boggans and Burch 2 of Sol's most heralded recruits during Solomon's first year, when negative recruiting must have been the most difficult.

I would like to see the new recruits on the floor, before I can entertain any thoughts of "Solomon pulling us out of this with his recruiting and likely will continue to do so" because so far only Michael Lee has proven to be a legitimate A-10 recruit of Solomons. JH we have disagreed
on this board for 8 years now and I've enjoyed every disagreement. Looking forward to your next post.

[LumsdnA10Academc98]

"Despite a disappointing season the A-10 still remains as one of the higher rated basketball conferences."

Your words, Chuck. Now let's hold us to the standard of an A-10 program, let alone St. Bona's. Like you said, we filled 2/3 of our 6,000 seat arena during a season in which we won two games. We're not Alcorn State. Those comparisons are irrelevant.

By Bona standards, where were we? Far below zero. That's not just my opinion, that's by Coach Slo's humble, seldom-outspoken standards.

"Below zero are teams with attendance in the hundreds and not thousands, school budgets which allows for only 1 assistant coach, players on a team that was never considered by even a mid major. " We're not in the MEAC or the SWAC. We're in the A-10 and we just won two games. If the worst season, by far, in the history of our program isn't below zero, by Bona's token, what is?

We weren't below Fahrenheit, we were way below zero by Atlantic 10 and St. Bonaventure scales. I speak in the past tense because if anyone knows, it's the coach who's geting us out of that zero mess.

[Chuck]

I appreciate and enjoy seeing a respectful disagreement. With out a doubt they are the most entertaining to read and most challenging for a response. I agree this season has been the "worse season by far in the history of our program" and by Bona standards it is below zero, but Solomon's comment did not refer to this past season. Solomon is referring to the program he inherited as being below zero. Why are the comparisons to Alcorn State, SWAC and MEAC irrelevent? Solomon's comments were in general and not just limited to Bona's standards. There are programs below zero, but the Bonnies are not one of them. Solomon has many advantages over these schools and therefore should not be ranked with them in the RPIs. Hopefully the recruits are as good as stated by Solomon and this past season will not be repeated.

[jh]

Chuck one big advantage bigger schools like Baylor or Georgia have is they have money to 'buy easy victories' before they get back on their feet. Again...exactly what Sol inherited becomes very evident in year 2 (yes in yr 1 we had Marques Green and supportive crowd)....what we saw this year is exactly what Sol inherited....tho it actually looked even worse since Sol chose to take on 2 transfers (williams & Relph) who would help the program in the longer run but would rob his 2nd year team of 2 more scholarships......
Look at the recruits Sol has brought in...off of a 2 win season ....compare this to prior recruiting classes of other coaches at SBU who came off 18 win seasons....
The Key is the program seems to be headed in a very positive direction right now...Sol and staff have turned the corner.....its a good thing

[bonadad07]

I have to agree with Solomon. As someone who was not affiliated with Bonas at the time of the scandal, I can relate how Bonas was looked at by the general sports population and it was horrible. All they were known for by most were the team quitting.(Bona fans know of the great history and fan support but not the general public) It was a national disgrace and no other incoming coach had to inherit that, that seems to be starting below zero. I think he is doing a great job pulling this great program out of the mess and back to respectability.

[geo]

If the immediate aftermath of the JT disaster and the team subsequently quitting didn't bring us to less than zero, I definitely don't want to know what less than zero feels like.

geo

[bulldogbrower]

Unfortunatley, Below Zero is such an arbitrary term.

[Bubba]

Chucky:

Thanks for the post. It generated lots of responses! This board can certainly use more posts of the sort that move folks to post responses and lots of them.

A big "atta boy" for stirring folks to "action"!

However, I gotta flat out disagree with your assertion that the program was not "below zero".

Candidly, comparing SBU's program to Alcorn State's is just plain nuts. Using that comparison as the basis for your argument is also nuts!

Allegany is a thriving city compared to Alcorn, Mississippi.

Frankly, I was impressed to learn that 150 attended the Alcorn - Arkansas "By Golly" Baptist game. That figure astounds me!

Sure, SBU's attendance averaged 4,186 / game this past season - but it was "heading south" and another 2 win season would have resulted in dramatic fall off from that figure and a reduction of what few corporate sponsorships remained.

Recruiting kids to come to SBU was for several years made virtually impossible because of looming sanctions and the absolutely horrific "stench" created from the misteps (a real understatement) from the prior administration.

Getting booted from the A-10, opting for a lesser conference, getting out of DI were the subject of numerous posts on this board.

I'm amazed that in a time when winning is everything to a lot of people on the collegiate level, when TV exposure counts for a lot, when lots of recruits have no interest in playing for a school located in a small out of the way place (great as it is) that Solomon could pull this sort of recruiting year off - a top 50 class! Are you kidding me! Has SBU, in recent memory, ever had a top 50 class?

Kudos to Coach Sol! Frankly, I'm both very surprised and amazed at what's been accomplished in terms of recruiting.

He's got folks "drinking the cool aid" and he's, obviously, able to convey what a special place SBU is and create a desire on the part of certain talented recruits to attend a great school and play for a program who's recent past is both soiled and filled with more losses than most DI programs.

One poster made a great comment concerning the fact that this year's class is better than past classes recruited on the heels of 18 - 20 win seasons!

I love SBU. The past several years have really, really hurt - I've hated seeing a place I hold incredibly close and near to my heart get ripped in the press and on the court. Lots of times I thought the program's "magic" had been lost forever - but, now this!

It's fantastic to read about this year's class.

We can argue about "above zero" or "below zero". The fact is that Coach Sol has created real excitement in a program that's had far too little of it for too long!

Cheers!

Thanks for the post!