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Post by thecoach on Jun 3, 2023 4:16:02 GMT -5
everyone was worried about replacing Osun..... Venning proved to be better last season.
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Post by agoo on Jun 3, 2023 6:24:28 GMT -5
everyone was worried about replacing Osun..... Venning proved to be better last season. So defense doesn’t count?
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Post by orangehater on Jun 3, 2023 8:38:56 GMT -5
everyone was worried about replacing Osun..... Venning proved to be better last season. So defense doesn’t count? Or passing?
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Post by gregmitch70 on Jun 3, 2023 9:39:23 GMT -5
So defense doesn’t count? Or passing? Didn't help Osun much this year as he played only about 20 min a game and ended up not even tarting some games near end...
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Post by ceharv on Jun 3, 2023 9:46:02 GMT -5
Not every coach appreciates superior D like Schmidt, something OO should have realized when transferring.
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Post by wcook0411 on Jun 3, 2023 15:43:30 GMT -5
Im Sure Osun regrets transferring definitely took a step back. He did right by Bonas for four years.
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Post by thecoach on Jun 4, 2023 3:24:48 GMT -5
So defense doesn’t count? Or passing? Osun was a decent passer b/c he had no moves down low and couldn't shoot, while playing with the over hyped iron 5. Venning, however, was the focus offensively and can post up or shoot outside. He plays good defense and gives 100 percent. Osun had a couple years of foul trouble.
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Post by thecoach on Jun 4, 2023 3:27:47 GMT -5
So defense doesn’t count? Or passing? He was the priority scorer. Centers aren't really relied on for passing. Osun did pass well b/c he had no offense and he had the almighty iron 4 to kick out to.
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Post by thecoach on Jun 4, 2023 3:40:38 GMT -5
everyone was worried about replacing Osun..... Venning proved to be better last season. So defense doesn’t count? Yes, defense does count. Offense doesn't count? Also, Venning played with lesser talent than Osun-correct?? All i said was everyone was worried about losing Osun's 2.7 blocks per game and the center position last year was the least of the problems. My gosh.
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Post by Chuck on Jun 4, 2023 10:49:17 GMT -5
It is a mistake saying Chad is a better scorer than Osun. Chad scored a total of 45 points more than Osun (they both played 32 games). Chad is more skilled with offensive game in the post, while Osun is more talented scoring using elite athleticism, scoring on put backs, dunks and fast breaks. Statement from thecoach “also, Venning played with lesser talent than Osun” is a reason why it is so surprising Osun and Chad scoring is so close. Chad was a focus of the offense, while there were few plays designed for Osun. A good discussion between Chad and Osun “would Bonnies have a better record with Osun?” Big benefit of Osun’s game is his vision and passing it out for open jumpers. Overlooked benefit of Chad’s game is interior man defense. Osun was a great off the man defender (dominating the paint) but had trouble defending big men one-on-one as he would be out muscled. Chad and Osun are completely different players. This past season, Bonnies would have benefited from Osun dominating the paint with his defense and his passing skills. His high flying dunks are exciting, but is not something you can count on. Unlike Osun, Schmidt was able to design plays for Chad. Difficult to decide, which player would have been better for the Bonnies this past season. Would Bonnies record be better this past season with Osun? I think it could have been a couple more wins. Lack of experience and leadership was a problem. With Osun would Bonnies lose 7 of their last 8 games? I don’t think so. Everyone is going to be stunned when they see the new Chad. He is in great shape and extremely mobile. I actually wonder if Chad is too skinny. Amazing the difference in his foot speed. An extremely mobile Chad will improve his game and also make the Bonnies better. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-bonaventure/men/2023.htmlwww.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-bonaventure/men/2022.html
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Post by mnbonnie on Jun 4, 2023 15:09:01 GMT -5
From lazy, crazy, hazy day of summer to a discussion of Bonnie’s hoops. As always interesting analysis and insight from Chuck. Like so many an t wait to see what chad can do. Just as excited to see Charles Pride, Mia Adams Woods, Noel Brown, Miles Rose and Duane Thompson. I think all these guys will enable the Bonnie’s to bring it for forty minutes. Does this change how Coach Schmidt approaches a game? Only time wlll Teri, but IMO he s got so and in some cases three deep talent to run out there. I look at a guy like Noel Brown, who over the last couple of years has had to try and squeeze minutes playing out of a four guard uptempo offense that never focused on their big man. Noel like chad is a much better fit for what the Bonnie’s are trying to run on offense and likewise defense, his ability to clog the middle and help the Bppnies keep their opponent off the offensive class, chad s sub will be a plus not a minus. The same is true of all these guys, they bring what we were lacking last year. Likewise banks, flowers , Luc, Farrell don’t have the pressure of having to carry the team each night. Likewise I believe this will allow Barry to do what he does, regain some confidence, but also learn to relax and recognize that there are many different ways to contribute. The report about Melian is that he is no longer the guy that chad and now Noel can push around and I bekievethat he roo will be a contributor.
Hoping some of our next reports will ne from thr RC!
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Post by efsboca on Jun 5, 2023 8:10:13 GMT -5
It is a mistake saying Chad is a better scorer than Osun. Chad scored a total of 45 points more than Osun (they both played 32 games). Chad is more skilled with offensive game in the post, while Osun is more talented scoring using elite athleticism, scoring on put backs, dunks and fast breaks. Statement from thecoach “also, Venning played with lesser talent than Osun” is a reason why it is so surprising Osun and Chad scoring is so close. Chad was a focus of the offense, while there were few plays designed for Osun. A good discussion between Chad and Osun “would Bonnies have a better record with Osun?” Big benefit of Osun’s game is his vision and passing it out for open jumpers. Overlooked benefit of Chad’s game is interior man defense. Osun was a great off the man defender (dominating the paint) but had trouble defending big men one-on-one as he would be out muscled. Chad and Osun are completely different players. This past season, Bonnies would have benefited from Osun dominating the paint with his defense and his passing skills. His high flying dunks are exciting, but is not something you can count on. Unlike Osun, Schmidt was able to design plays for Chad. Difficult to decide, which player would have been better for the Bonnies this past season. Would Bonnies record be better this past season with Osun? I think it could have been a couple more wins. Lack of experience and leadership was a problem. With Osun would Bonnies lose 7 of their last 8 games? I don’t think so. Everyone is going to be stunned when they see the new Chad. He is in great shape and extremely mobile. I actually wonder if Chad is too skinny. Amazing the difference in his foot speed. An extremely mobile Chad will improve his game and also make the Bonnies better. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-bonaventure/men/2023.htmlwww.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-bonaventure/men/2022.htmlChuck, awesome analysis as always, but I do disagree on a couple of points. Chad is clearly the much better offensive player as it relates to footwork and moves around the basket. While you indicated the point differential, you stated that Chad had more offensive plays for him, but you failed to analyze the offenses and points generated by each team. Chad did have more plays because he is much better offensively. OO had many alley oop plays set for him and other pop outs though, it is not like they did not go to him. OO also ran the court better and garnered many points on the break or finishing after a miss on the break. Chad is not a runner. You subtract those points and the division widens. You also say Chad was primary because he played with lesser talent. Again, I agree, but this also means the defense could collapse on Chad, making it much more difficult for him to score, while with OO he had more space to score one on one. Chad is not as good of a passer right now, but OO played with his HS PG and played 4 years with the same guys overall (okay 3 for two of them). If you put Chad and OO on a team with the same talent over the same time frame, Chad would be the far stronger offensive option IMHO.
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Post by ceharv on Jun 5, 2023 8:33:53 GMT -5
My two cents on the OO v. Chad as post players debate. Looking back on OO at Bonas, I feel that what bothered many on the BW, is that it appeared OO hadn’t put in any effort in improving his offense. He was a natural defender and his offensive game was limited from the moment he arrived and never seemed to improve significantly. Of course he may have been putting in the work, but other factors may have been holding him back. On the other hand, Chad appears to be more limited athletically but on O has developed more moves, plus decent shooting skills - the kind of things we’d have liked to have seen OO develop and use, but which we never did.
The good news is we have a coach who gets the best of what is there from his guys and I think we’ll be seeing more good things from Chad this year as he becomes more comfortable in this O and in the league. I hope he’s rewatching that dominant performance against Dayton’s front line all summer long and getting prepped to dominate against the equal or less skilled post players he’ll be facing in ‘23-24.
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Post by thecoach on Jun 6, 2023 0:55:46 GMT -5
It is a mistake saying Chad is a better scorer than Osun. Chad scored a total of 45 points more than Osun (they both played 32 games). Chad is more skilled with offensive game in the post, while Osun is more talented scoring using elite athleticism, scoring on put backs, dunks and fast breaks. Statement from thecoach “also, Venning played with lesser talent than Osun” is a reason why it is so surprising Osun and Chad scoring is so close. Chad was a focus of the offense, while there were few plays designed for Osun. A good discussion between Chad and Osun “would Bonnies have a better record with Osun?” Big benefit of Osun’s game is his vision and passing it out for open jumpers. Overlooked benefit of Chad’s game is interior man defense. Osun was a great off the man defender (dominating the paint) but had trouble defending big men one-on-one as he would be out muscled. Chad and Osun are completely different players. This past season, Bonnies would have benefited from Osun dominating the paint with his defense and his passing skills. His high flying dunks are exciting, but is not something you can count on. Unlike Osun, Schmidt was able to design plays for Chad. Difficult to decide, which player would have been better for the Bonnies this past season. Would Bonnies record be better this past season with Osun? I think it could have been a couple more wins. Lack of experience and leadership was a problem. With Osun would Bonnies lose 7 of their last 8 games? I don’t think so. Everyone is going to be stunned when they see the new Chad. He is in great shape and extremely mobile. I actually wonder if Chad is too skinny. Amazing the difference in his foot speed. An extremely mobile Chad will improve his game and also make the Bonnies better. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-bonaventure/men/2023.htmlwww.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-bonaventure/men/2022.htmlSo this is comparing senior osun to Venning's first year at Bona's? He has 2 more years left and it's a Toss up over which player is better as of last season. I'll put my money on Venning. Venning carried last years team on his back and was the focal point on offense. I don't think Osun would have been a leader or won them more games by being defensive player of the year. I know players would not drive into the lane with osun but venning is pretty intimidating and also worries opposing guards. FYI, Dikembe never won a championship but did win defensive player of the year four times. Team defense does help win championships but blocking shots and not contributing on offense does not.
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Post by bonaforeva on Jun 6, 2023 6:47:56 GMT -5
Just a different player, off ball I don’t think we’ve had a better 5 man than Osun.
Venning doesn’t offer much off ball. Venning is better with the ball on both ends but off the ball he doesn’t give much, he’s not cutting to the rim or running the floor for example
Coach needs a new obsession though. This is a tired debate
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