Women's Softball

[ganyguy]

Undeestand the Bandwagon's basketball focus but with the conclusion of the school year I took a look at the Spring teams' seasons. Women's softball really stood out given their absolutely abysmal season. Not only did they finish the season 4-39 (that's a mind numbing .093), they were outscored, in total, 380-92, meaning the team barely scored 2 runs a game on average. I understand that the university does not/is not able to sink many resources into the program but wow, this is absolute rock bottom performance. The team has underperformed for years and yet Treehouse retains his job....why? It's an absolute joke.....and my bet is that the chronic underperformance of our softball teams is a function of numerous issues beyond just resource commitments. I hope and trust that the new AD will take a long hard look at this ongoing fiasco.

[towniegrad]

Without. Treehouse the team might be worse…who knows Softball is a tough game in Allegany.

[jjjacks17]

It’s tough to compete in outdoor spring/fall sports in a mostly mid Atlantic league when you have to play in snow belt of WNY.

[zorro (res)]

May 14, 2024 8:01:52 GMT -5 ganyguy said:

Undeestand the Bandwagon's basketball focus but with the conclusion of the school year I took a look at the Spring teams' seasons. Women's softball really stood out given their absolutely abysmal season. Not only did they finish the season 4-39 (that's a mind numbing .093), they were outscored, in total, 380-92, meaning the team barely scored 2 runs a game on average. I understand that the university does not/is not able to sink many resources into the program but wow, this is absolute rock bottom performance. The team has underperformed for years and yet Treehouse retains his job....why? It's an absolute joke.....and my bet is that the chronic underperformance of our softball teams is a function of numerous issues beyond just resource commitments. I hope and trust that the new AD will take a long hard look at this ongoing fiasco.

The men's lacrosse team finished 1-11 (.091). And, it's fully funded. No reason to be picking on softball.

[marylandbonnie1]

Seriously, what has happened to Men’s Lax. I now realize how good their All-World Goaltender, Brett Dobson, who graduated was but they still should be better than this.

[towniegrad]

Is that the men’s lax house on union st?
If it is take a look! Would you expect them to be good?

[ctm77]

Every year people who don’t actually care about our spring sports (and a very small fraction of people seem to) come on here to complain about them. No, the softball team was not good at all. Yes, they should consider a replacement after years of poor performance. But to wildly speculate that there are other factors at play (which this board is very good at during basketball season) is irresponsible. Threehouse is a great guy who graduates his players, who all have nothing but good things to say about him.

The lacrosse team had a sophomore goalie and many underclassmen on defense, which was clearly the Achilles heel of a team that had a good offense. They will be fine and have one of the best lacrosse coaches in America.

[Pinnum]

So... anyone who may recall (or looks back on the discussions) knows that I did not believe MLax was a wise investment under the model that was implemented. It was a pet project of a previous administration which required significant resources (which have never been made available to other non-basketball programs at SBU).

The purpose of the program was unclear... as it was sold on the premise that new more students from higher income families who are willing to pay tuition to play D1 lax would enroll while also being sold as a program that would be highly successful and bring out spectators to games further increasing fan engagement which is why it needed to be fully funded. It's not possible to increase tuition revenue from the sport while also being fully funded. And there was no evidence to support the premise that fans would turn out given other programs in the region, even if the Bonnies could produce a winner but even that was doubtful given resources and the positioning of the institution.

But we don't need to rehash any of that... I only wanted to be transparent on my initial position. With that being said, I will comment on the questions and discussions...

Why is MLax not having success after a promising start to the program? It's rather simple. They moved from the weakest conference to a much more competitive conference. They use to compete in the MAAC which is a very weak conference where programs are not funded. Now they are playing in the Atlantic 10 where everyone is funded. Did you know that in all the years of MLax at Bonas, the program has never beat a school that is a member of the A10 in MLax?


This isn't unique to MLax. It is also true of all sports. The A10 is MUCH better than the MAAC in all sports, including softball.

In the last six years (the years in which MLax has been at SBU), these are the results for softball and MLax against A10 Opponents and against MAAC Opponents:

MAAC Records (Win Percentage)
- Softball, 8-17 (.320)
- MLax, 12-15 (.444)

A10 Records (Win Percentage)
- Softball, 18-104 (.148)
- MLax, 0-17 (.000)

Being in the A10 simply makes it harder to be successful and the MLax program, even with their massive funding (in comparison to other SBU sports) is finding that out.

The one win SBU MLax had this year? Canisus; who was similar in performance this year based on the RPI. But while SBU finished the year 1-11 in the tougher A10, Canisius finished the year 5-10, even with the loss to the Bonnies. If the Bonnies were still in the MAAC for MLax, they would have been in the middle of the pack and there wouldn't be much talk about MLax performance issues.

The same is true for softball. St. Peter's softball sat at the bottom of the MAAC standings this spring and they sit in a similar position to the Bonnies Softball team in the RPI. But while the Bonnies finished 4-39, St. Peters finished 16-34. If you only looked at records you would believe St. Peter's was a much better team but they are peers on the field. The only difference is the level of competition.

We were all proud of the MLax program's run to the MAAC Semi-finals in the 2022 season when they finished the year 11-4. But the A10 is just much harder than the MAAC and recreating those results will be difficult.

In 2022, not a single MAAC program (including the Bonnies) was in the top-50% of D1 MLax programs. The Bonnies' schedule only included two teams ranked in the top-half of D1 programs, Richmond and St. Joseph's, both A10 schools. The Bonnies were 0-2 against teams in the top half of D1 and 11-2 against the teams in the bottom half of D1. With many of those programs being in the bottom quadrant of D1 programs.

The schedule is the main difference. Competing in the MAAC is just easier than the A10. And it is one of the things I have communicated for years. The lack of success by the Bonnies programs is largely a function of the desirable basketball affiliation.

There are a few things that have made it harder on the softball program in the last few years, as well as in general.

The first is that La Salle dropped women's softball. They use to be a peer program in the A10. In La Salle's last six years in the A10, they were 22-89 in the A10 while the Bonnies were a similar 20-88. The two teams would get some of their wins from each other. Those opportunities are no more for the Bonnies which has reduced the number of wins by a few a season. Repla

The weather is a big obstacle for the Bonnies softball (and baseball) program. Many people know of the struggles of playing the sport in February in Olean where it is known to snow right up to graduation in May. But that is an issue that all northern programs face and simply explains why they are less successful nationally than their southern peer institutions.


What is missed is that in the sport the OOC games against local rivals are played as weekday games with a preference for one off games. The weekends are reserved for the three game conference series.

It is true that the Bonnies Softball would have more success with playing more games against the MAAC schools OOC.

The issue is that getting the OOC games scheduled against other less competitive (nationally) programs is very difficult. We could try to schedule the other MAAC programs but Playing St. Peters, for example, isn't an option as they won't agree to a weekday game because it is too far away when the games have to be played as day games because the field doesn't have lights and the nights are too cold.

We always have Niagara, Canisius, and Buffalo to play, of course. They are regularly programs of a similar level. And we always schedule them. But the issue is that many games are unable to be played due to weather. You can't move your weekday games to the weekend because of the conference games, while the conference games can be moved one day by design and played as a double header.

Released Schedule
- March 10 - @ Buffalo (DH) - Postponed - Weather (Unable to be rescheduled)
- March 20 - Canisius (DH) - Postponed - Weather (Unable to be rescheduled)
- April 4 - Niagara - Postponed (Rescheduled as a DH with April 30th game)
- April 30 - @ Niagara (L 4-1, postponed game made up in DH, L 6-0)

While six games were scheduled against local peers, only two were able to be played. The much tougher A10 games get played. The weather this spring just didn't help them out. In sports like soccer, lax, and the like, those games would have been rescheduled. But the nature of scheduling in baseball/softball just doesn't provide for the option a lot of the time. Ideally, in baseball/softball, you want your conference games to be competitive and your OOC games to be reach games against better programs. We have the opposite.

[kccgold]

Baseball team is battling and had some big wins this year. Although they have seen a recent stretch of bad luck

Teams have ups and downs, softball and lacrosse will both be back soon

[marylandbonnie1]

Pinnum nice post. I am not some Johnny come lately on men’s lax. I wrote to Watson to add men’s lax. Your argument on A10 lax is valid. Richmond, St Joes and High Point and legit top 35 teams in the nation if not higher.

However, this does not explain the out of conference season since Dobson has graduated. The team has only won two OOC games the last two years. This is the unacceptable part for how good a coach he is supposed to be.

[zorro (res)]

May 15, 2024 16:09:23 GMT -5 marylandbonnie1 said:

Pinnum nice post. I am not some Johnny come lately on men’s lax. I wrote to Watson to add men’s lax. Your argument on A10 lax is valid. Richmond, St Joes and High Point and legit top 35 teams in the nation if not higher.

However, this does not explain the out of conference season since Dobson has graduated. The team has only won two OOC games the last two years. This is the unacceptable part for how good a coach he is supposed to be.

Exactly. Mearns found some excellent players in that first huge recruiting class. Not so much lately...

[bonahoopman]

May 15, 2024 16:02:06 GMT -5 kccgold said:

Baseball team is battling and had some big wins this year. Although they have seen a recent stretch of bad luck

Teams have ups and downs, softball and lacrosse will both be back soon

Softball will be back? Look at Threehouses career record. It’s a joke!

[marylandbonnie1]

May 15, 2024 16:18:20 GMT -5 zorro (res) said:

May 15, 2024 16:09:23 GMT -5 marylandbonnie1 said:

Pinnum nice post. I am not some Johnny come lately on men’s lax. I wrote to Watson to add men’s lax. Your argument on A10 lax is valid. Richmond, St Joes and High Point and legit top 35 teams in the nation if not higher.

However, this does not explain the out of conference season since Dobson has graduated. The team has only won two OOC games the last two years. This is the unacceptable part for how good a coach he is supposed to be.

Exactly. Mearns found some excellent players in that first huge recruiting class. Not so much lately...

Res, I agree. As an example, there is a kid in Rochester this year who is going to probably win Greater Rochester/Section V Defensman on the year. He has truly dominated Section V all season.

This kid has been to every Bona game held in Rochester. But this kid is not going to Bona, he is off to a Patriot L team, not Bucknell but they did recruit him. This kid is my nephew and never even received a letter from Bona, much less talk to any of the coaches.

Now to be fair, he was not going to Bona because he wants engineering. However, he would have loved to be recruited by Bona for no other reason because of my love for school.

My point is how many local kids are getting away from Bona because their evaluation process.

[zorro (res)]

Tell him to enjoy Lehigh. It's a good school.

[dadster81]

there is alot of lax talent in Sec. 5
www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/college/2024/05/15/14-former-section-v-lacrosse-players-competing-for-division-i-titles/73683805007/