2nddev
Sophomore Member
Posts: 109
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Post by 2nddev on Jan 13, 2009 20:44:23 GMT -5
Hello Mike, I was infuriated when I read that article for the first time back in 2003. You said it yourself, writing in an influential sports section had an impact. Unfortunately the impact of your article was to reinforce the notion that St. Bonaventure University was a laughingstock and national punchline. Those words were hurtful and carefully chosen. Stating that you put your ring in a drawer was bad enough. Far worse, however, was the fact that you allowed an opportunity to tell the world what St. Bonaventure is really all about fall to the dirt with the shambles of what was once a proud basketball tradition. A few sentences explaining why an army of alums was up in arms would have gone a long way towards making it clear that the despicable Wicks and VBK in no way reflected the way true Bonaventure men behave. Unfortunately, those words never appeared in that influential sports section.
Having said all of that, it was a terrible moment and everyone makes mistakes. We all make mistakes in life. I am a champion at it. Unfortunately, from your message above it appears that you still believe that you didn't make one. In my view, an apology would have been more appropriate than an effort to justify an alumni kicking his Alma Mater when She was down.
Since it appears that most who have replied to you don't feel the way I do, maybe it is me who is making a mistake at this moment. In the end, I choose to view writing this message as a way for me to let go of a long-standing and hurtful resentment. I honestly wish you well and I know that you wouldn't have written the recent column or started this discussion if you were not truly a Bonnie at heart.
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Post by B02 on Jan 13, 2009 21:26:30 GMT -5
I guess the best analogy is this... how many Giants fans were walking around decked out in Giant jersey's hats etc... on Monday morning. I would guess not many. Just like how many people wanted to deal with the all the bad conversations that would spark after the controversy if you wore Bona gear. I said it before and I will say it again, I would guess a majority of Bona graduates were flat out humiliated by Bona administration and board of trustees for allowing it to happen and were not afraid to express their displeasure with the University at the time. This is why I say Mike was right at the time to speak for a portion (not all) of the Bona alumni and express his feelings. I don't think Mike claims he's the spokesmen for Bona alumns, but he has a right to say what he is feeling at the time. Finally, as WGT said Mike and Woj tore into Jan Van when the university finally stepped up.
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Post by tomangelone on Jan 13, 2009 22:55:23 GMT -5
I guess the best analogy is this... how many Giants fans were walking around decked out in Giant jersey's hats etc... on Monday morning. I would guess not many. Just like how many people wanted to deal with the all the bad conversations that would spark after the controversy if you wore Bona gear. I said it before and I will say it again, I would guess a majority of Bona graduates were flat out humiliated by Bona administration and board of trustees for allowing it to happen and were not afraid to express their displeasure with the University at the time. This is why I say Mike was right at the time to speak for a portion (not all) of the Bona alumni and express his feelings. I don't think Mike claims he's the spokesmen for Bona alumns, but he has a right to say what he is feeling at the time. Finally, as WGT said Mike and Woj tore into Jan Van when the university finally stepped up. No, no, no. That's not what any of this is about. It has nothing to do with the lack of wearing a team or school's gear during tough times (and let's NOT draw any parallels to an NFL team losing a playoff game and what happened to Bona at that time). It has EVERYTHING to do with a St. Bonaventure alumnus on a major national podium refusing to put to rest any concept of the school's status as a "laughingstock" or any kind of joke. In fact, he went a step further and broke us down some more. That article was hurtful, plain and simple, and it is my estimation that some part of Vaccaro's inner being wishes he hadn't worded exactly the way he did. By all means, rip JVBK and Wick to shreds--they deserved it. However, to bring the school itself into the article was irresponsible and borderline unforgivable on a lot of levels for the long time Bona man. We flat out didn't need that from a guy who possessed the same stage upon which many of those stinging barbs of perception were conceived. Things could have been different.
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Post by woof on Jan 13, 2009 23:12:20 GMT -5
It has EVERYTHING to do with a St. Bonaventure alumnus on a major national podium refusing to put to rest any concept of the school's status as a "laughingstock" or any kind of joke. Just exactly what do you call this, then? The people who ripped Vac for that were wrong six years ago, and they're wrong now. And I say that as someone who stood in the Reilly Center six years ago on the afternoon the Dayton game was supposed to be played, fighting back tears, hoping in my own heart that I wasn't attending a funeral for the SBU basketball program.
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Post by tomangelone on Jan 13, 2009 23:23:43 GMT -5
It has EVERYTHING to do with a St. Bonaventure alumnus on a major national podium refusing to put to rest any concept of the school's status as a "laughingstock" or any kind of joke. Just exactly what do you call this, then? I call it writing a strong piece at a convenient time, woof--one whose tone would have been nice to absorb around, say, 2003. Now, if you can fight back your tears, get to the Reilly Center tomorrow night and cheer on the team that picked itself up by the bootstraps ON ITS OWN. Go Bonnies!
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remus
Sophomore Member
$3k for a phone bill is awful expensive
Posts: 233
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Post by remus on Jan 14, 2009 7:57:11 GMT -5
Vac made JVBK and his attorney squirm? Hardly. They held a press conference for a reason and of course they knew that reporters would ask questions (isn't that what reporters do?). If your definition of squirming means that the JVBK didn't answer any questions, then sure Vac made him squirm and clearly he ripped him to shreds. Accordingly, every night some reporter rips somebody to shreds because plaintiffs and lawyers often refuse to comment on specifics of on on-going court case.
Vac showed his true character and lack of spine by hiding his ring. When the going got tough, Vac went hiding. It's easy to support your school in the better times, thus the most recent article. Real people show their support during the toughest of times and clearly Vac melted under pressure.
As for the analogy of how many people were wearing hats or jerseys on Monday, that is a horrible comparison. A hat or shirt are much more visible than a ring. I can read a hat from across the room or across the subway train. Same can't be said for a ring. Plus, I have way more allegiance to my college than I would any professional sports team. The team represents the school, my school, we're all tied by bond. Some love to refer to it as "The Good Journey", how many professional sports teams have that same bond? Bonnies refers to the school, a professional sports team does not.
Obviously Vac can write whatever he wants, but he tried to justify what he did and what he wrote years ago. I'm sorry, it didn't make sense then and the explanation doesn't hold water with me. Be a fan, support the school, do all of that, but I'll always know who stood by the school when it needed it most. I'm not saying he should've supported Wick, but he should have supported the name of the university. There are bad apples in every group, unfortunately, Vac decided the bad apple spoiled the rest of the bunch. I disagree.
I'm proud to say and have lived, "Once a Bonnie always a Bonnie." Maybe he could get a ring that says "Once a Bonnie, Always a Bonnie (as long as the times are good)."
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Post by mangham on Jan 14, 2009 8:07:02 GMT -5
Vac made JVBK and his attorney squirm? Hardly. They held a press conference for a reason and of course they knew that reporters would ask questions (isn't that what reporters do?). If your definition of squirming means that the JVBK didn't answer any questions, then sure Vac made him squirm and clearly he ripped him to shreds. Accordingly, every night some reporter rips somebody to shreds because plaintiffs and lawyers often refuse to comment on specifics of on on-going court case. Vac showed his true character and lack of spine by hiding his ring. When the going got tough, Vac went hiding. It's easy to support your school in the better times, thus the most recent article. Real people show their support during the toughest of times and clearly Vac melted under pressure. As for the analogy of how many people were wearing hats or jerseys on Monday, that is a horrible comparison. A hat or shirt are much more visible than a ring. I can read a hat from across the room or across the subway train. Same can't be said for a ring. Plus, I have way more allegiance to my college than I would any professional sports team. The team represents the school, my school, we're all tied by bond. Some love to refer to it as "The Good Journey", how many professional sports teams have that same bond? Bonnies refers to the school, a professional sports team does not. Obviously Vac can write whatever he wants, but he tried to justify what he did and what he wrote years ago. I'm sorry, it didn't make sense then and the explanation doesn't hold water with me. Be a fan, support the school, do all of that, but I'll always know who stood by the school when it needed it most. I'm not saying he should've supported Wick, but he should have supported the name of the university. There are bad apples in every group, unfortunately, Vac decided the bad apple spoiled the rest of the bunch. I disagree. I'm proud to say and have lived, "Once a Bonnie always a Bonnie." Maybe he could get a ring that says "Once a Bonnie, Always a Bonnie (as long as the times are good)." No one, other than Bona fans, remembers who the president was but they sure remember the "welding scandal". It demeaned the university. We ALL should have been ashamed! End of story!
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Post by sneakers on Jan 14, 2009 8:30:19 GMT -5
No one, other than Bona fans, remembers who the president was but they sure remember the "welding scandal". It demeaned the university. We ALL should have been ashamed! End of story! Why should we ALL be ashamed? I certainly wasn't ashamed. I was severely bummed out, and I regretted all the bad press and the ribbing from some people who know of my affinity with the Bonnies, but I wasn't ashamed. I had nothing to do with bringing an ineligible player to the school or to hide that fact for most of the season. Neither did 99%+ of the readers of this board, the students, faculty, administrators, trustees, etc. There were a handful of bad apples and once it was brought to our attention the alumni and students demanded change and we got it. We needn't be ashamed. Wick, JVBK, etc. should be ashamed, but not us. As for Mike Vaccaro, I agree with 2nddev and tomangelone's posts above. There was no need for Vaccaro to pile on and it was hurtful. A more carefully worded article that placed the blame where it belonged and discussed how upset the school's alumni and supporters were could have been written instead. It shows a lot of class to "be there" for the people and institutions that you love when times are the most bleak. Vaccaro wasn't there for SBU at that time. I'm not holding a grudge though. Just look at all the posts on this board that are so nasty and personal after a Bonnie loss. The bandwagon gets awfully light with all the people leaping off after a loss. That is apparently human nature for a large number of people. Thankfully we also have a lot of true supporters of the program.
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Post by OceanStateBonnie on Jan 14, 2009 8:38:27 GMT -5
I had no issue with MV's article at the time and still don't after re-reading it again here. The comments about the ring and diploma were symbolism and expressed the outrage we all felt about the shame brought to our alma mater by a few bums. If Mike didn't want people to know about him being an alum, he would not have written the article at all. By doing so, he used the pen to express the pain.
Go Bona's. Beat the Hawks.
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Post by donniesbu82 on Jan 14, 2009 8:46:33 GMT -5
I have no issue with MV's article now or then. Can't we just forgive and move on. The scandal was horrible. I will never forgive Wick or vbk but I will forgive a fellow alumni. St Bonaventure is bigger than the scandal and Bonaventure will rise again! That says much for this University that we all love.
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Post by woof on Jan 14, 2009 9:07:34 GMT -5
Just exactly what do you call this, then? I call it writing a strong piece at a convenient time, woof--one whose tone would have been nice to absorb around, say, 2003. Now, if you can fight back your tears, get to the Reilly Center tomorrow night and cheer on the team that picked itself up by the bootstraps ON ITS OWN. Go Bonnies! The tone, and the story I pulled that quote out of, are FROM 2003. And as a season ticket holder, I do expect to be at the game tonight, but thanks for the suggestion. Now I remember why I don't hang around this board anymore.
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Post by clubhouse on Jan 14, 2009 9:28:50 GMT -5
I had no issue with MV's article at the time and still don't after re-reading it again here. The comments about the ring and diploma were symbolism and expressed the outrage we all felt about the shame brought to our alma mater by a few bums. If Mike didn't want people to know about him being an alum, he would not have written the article at all. By doing so, he used the pen to express the pain. Go Bona's. Beat the Hawks. That's where you are wrong and MV even stated why he wrote the article. He covered other scandals and felt he couldn't ignore this one just because it was in his own backyard. Therefore, in his eyes, he had no choice in the matter. I applaud him for that. The only symbolism I can think of regarding taking off his class ring was that he was ashamed to be a Bonnie. He took the cowardly way out, just like the players who quit on the season. MV could've written an article that crucified Wick and the administration while still protecting the name of the university. He chose not to, and instead wrote an article he felt obligated to write and in doing so, he acknowledged that he turned his back on the school at its darkest hour.
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Post by njbona02 on Jan 14, 2009 10:14:19 GMT -5
How many of you took crap at work or from your friends? I know I did. I still even get it once in a while when I mention we got a JUCO transfer. "Does he have a welding certificate?" All Mike did was write an article giving personal feelings about a scandal that directly affects him. Was he supposed to say that no matter what they had just done that Bonaventure is a shining example? No he wrote what we were at the time..An EMBARRASSMENT. Everyone here needs to get off their high horses and support alums. And for those who are not alumni and just love the bball team I guess its tough being an outsider looking in. For us it more than a bball team. I have said it before.
Kudos Mike keep it up.
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Post by wgt on Jan 14, 2009 10:42:31 GMT -5
Obviously there is a clear difference of opinion on the interpretation of Vaccaro’s March 6th article. Pleased to see that the discussion in this thread essentially stayed respectful to varying points of view. Really found Vaccaro’s post informative & provided insight into his thinking. The Bona ring came off until Wick & JvBK were both fired. As promised, when Mike & Adrian faced JvBK, & his large entourage of suits, at Mantles on April 29th the ring was back on his hand. The fired JvBK was clearly intimidated by Mike & Adrian's questions which he did answer while looking to Vandy attorney Lew Conner for support. Conner attempted to field qustions from others but the 20 or so press in attendance let the Bona grads have a field day. Then the JvBK's dog & pony show headed up to Buffalo for a late afternoon press conference to spin the same theme "I am the victim, & knew nothing." Never heard much about that press conference. Hopefully there were Bona journalistic grads present to point out JvBK's fraud as did Mike & Adrian.
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Post by magnusbu on Jan 14, 2009 11:08:05 GMT -5
I was pissed mostly. The fact that my degree lost significant value overnight because of the whole scandal really did not sit well with me. When somebody asked where you went to school and you said St. Bonaventure, it was followed with a different response after the scandal. Suddenly people could question how good of a school St. Bonaventure really is just because of the scandal.
The way I saw that article back then and still now is an alum that had the power to make an immediate impression made an immediate impression. You better believe that many SBU grads, administrators, Board members, and students read that article and it hit home with most of them. Here's an alum that got to where he is thanks in large part to his SBU degree and now because of his degree he is laughed at, targeted with punchline after punchline. So, personally I'm glad the article was written even though it was painful to hear that an alum would hide his affiliation with my school/our school.
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