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Post by orangehater on Dec 1, 2005 13:34:10 GMT -5
Well the board is living up to its name as the Bandwagon thats for sure.
At the risk of deflating or invoking a flame war, maybe its time to take a step back.
We are 2-2. The two wins are a tremendous step in the right direction, but this is a team that is still figuring out how to play together. Against WV we were down 45-25 and scored 21 straight......so which part of that is the fluke? Neither. Its a young team capable of incredible explosiveness, suffering from a bottom quarter D1 frontline presence. I dont care that we just outrebounded WV. Other teams will also have hustle and guile, and for every Toledo out there that board posters suddenly think we might beat is a St. Francis looking at us like we can be knocked off just the same. After all they played #19 GW to a halftime tie.
Our young team will turn over the ball, have a night where the outside shot isnt falling against a team that packs it in on D, and get royally pounded, probably sometime in the next two or three weeks.
Am I less of a fan because I think this? Two or three boards ago I was summarily pounded during the scandel for disloyalty because I predicted (look it up) a 3 win season after Marques graduated.
So I will be cheering and hoping as I have been since I first watched Lacey Fullmer dribble between 5 Virginia Commonwealth players for the last 5 minutes of a home win. If they go 7-0, I will come and eat crow. I would be thrilled with 5-2, but 4-3 sounds more like it, and anyone who thinks that isnt a step in the right direction has their head in the clouds.
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Post by sbuSTUDent2005 on Dec 1, 2005 13:48:10 GMT -5
I see the rest of our non-conference schedule as being pretty weak. We should be able to win the next 3 home games and look to take our first road win in God knows how long at either Toledo or Marist (I'm leaning towards Marist). I think we'll split the games in the FIU tourney, which means we'll be 5-2 in the next 7 games. But that's just my prediction.
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Post by res on Dec 1, 2005 15:04:50 GMT -5
Great post, Orangehater. I was debating drafting something like it myself, but yours was more eloquent yet more succinct than mine would have ever been. Nonetheless, I was going to wait until tomorrow to post, because everyone here has earned a day to exult, if that's the right term to use after a loss well-played.
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OL2
Freshman Member
Posts: 83
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Post by OL2 on Dec 1, 2005 15:21:36 GMT -5
Your sarcastic post misses too many points...it's wonderful that Bonnie fans have a team they can be enthusiastic about and one in which they see potential for significant development...you attribute their renewed interest to a "bandwagon" effect...you're wrong. Regardless how low this program sank...and man did it sink...no one ever walked away from this program...we might have suffered in silence off on our own but no one ever deserted ship. Your comment about SBU's having a "bottom quarter D1 front line" is also wrong. The front court, especially Lee and Hawkins show more promise than any two forwards we've had in years and is poised to be one of the more memorable...they can flat out play, shoot and go to the hoop. They are young yes but already quite good. Re turnovers: maybe but they're turnovers after four games is terrific. They're holding on to the ball...not throwing it away...which is why they've not been blown out. Appreciate that they took a veteren team in WVU that just missed out on the Final 4 (4 seniors and a junior starting) and damn near beat them. Will they have periods when they struggle..yes but my bet, in light of chemistry and talent observed to date, is that we'll see them succeed more times than fail. I appreciate your attempt at realism and objectivity but being a doubting thomas/skeptic doesn't equate to objectivity and realism. After 4 games we've seen what we've seen. It is what it is. That's what we have to go on. Accordingly, there's room for optimism. Talent, coaching, chemistry is what I see and yes some significant youth. I'm betting that talent/chemistry/coaching will trump the youthful element more times than not.
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BonniesFan
Sophomore Member
SEEEEE YAAAAAA
Posts: 151
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Post by BonniesFan on Dec 1, 2005 15:33:02 GMT -5
Your sarcastic post misses too many points...it's wonderful that Bonnie fans have a team they can be enthusiastic about and one in which they see potential for significant development...you attribute their renewed interest to a "bandwagon" effect...you're wrong. Regardless how low this program sank...and man did it sink...no one ever walked away from this program...we might have suffered in silence off on our own but no one ever deserted ship. Your comment about SBU's having a "bottom quarter D1 front line" is also wrong. The front court, especially Lee and Hawkins show more promise than any two forwards we've had in years and is poised to be one of the more memorable...they can flat out play, shoot and go to the hoop. They are young yes but already quite good. Re turnovers: maybe but they're turnovers after four games is terrific. They're holding on to the ball...not throwing it away...which is why they've not been blown out. Appreciate that they took a veteren team in WVU that just missed out on the Final 4 (4 seniors and a junior starting) and d**n near beat them. Will they have periods when they struggle..yes but my bet, in light of chemistry and talent observed to date, is that we'll see them succeed more times than fail. I appreciate your attempt at realism and objectivity but being a doubting thomas/skeptic doesn't equate to objectivity and realism. After 4 games we've seen what we've seen. It is what it is. That's what we have to go on. Accordingly, there's room for optimism. Talent, coaching, chemistry is what I see and yes some significant youth. I'm betting that talent/chemistry/coaching will trump the youthful element more times than not. Great post. I agree 100%. This is a lot better team than what we have had since the scandal. This team seems to play with a lot of heart and it is/will paying off. |
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Post by orangehater on Dec 1, 2005 15:57:50 GMT -5
Actually the title of the post was sarcastic, the point of the post was not. I stand by my comment we have a bottom quarter D1 front court. Your assesment that the athletic and exciting Lee and Hawkins will ultimately develop into a stellar pair may or may not pan out in the future. For now they are what they are, with a center that if stuck with during the PVP/Cyrus years, we would have considered ourselves in deep trouble. He just happens to be better than a D2 Kuba.
As far as the fans go, do you have some kind of direct knowledge that no fans were disgusted by what happened and chose not to return? Who can ever know that. I use "bandwagon" to describe our propensity as a board to overreact and overextrapolate positively and negatively based on every scrap of data. Good lord how many past posts have called for Solomon's head and now suddenly his marvelous coaching is going to overcome the youth and inexperience we have as a unit?
If you want to imagine that what I have posted casts me as nothing more than a "doubting thomas" feel free. There is plenty more "to go on" than a 2-2 record. We were down nearly 25 at one point to Niagara, late game respectability run notwithstanding. We made a tremendous comeback against an Elite 8 team. These things point to an exciting, if wildly inconsistant season.
Find me all the teams in D1 in the last 10 years that have made a 10-12 game improvement in one year over a single digit win total. If we are one of them it would be historic.
I post what I post because i am proud of our team, not to tear them down. To "only" win 10/12 games would be amazing IMO, and the dissappointment that Im sure we'll be swamped with demeans a tremendous effort by a team and coach on its way back.
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Post by sbu79 on Dec 1, 2005 16:17:10 GMT -5
I, for one, found your title and post to be exactly as you described them. The title was sarcastic, but the post was thoughtful. I also agree with what you said. It's tough to read the board sometimes because of the wild mood swings - but I do! I have erased several comments before posting them in response to comments about how incompetent the coach is. I don't know how anyone could judge his competence given what he had to work with. And I gave him the benefit of the doubt, even on his "line changes" last year in light of that.
Last thing - people did give up on the Bonnies last year. How many posts did I read with complaints that the poster couldn't even give away his/her tickets and was questioning whether to renew or not. I'm not criticizing that reaction, just reminding everyone that it was real.
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Post by FroMunga on Dec 1, 2005 16:40:31 GMT -5
Great post. Too much is made out of just one game. Sure it gives reason to be excited but to suddenly claim this team is NIT material? It will be interesting to look back at this post and the others made today come late February, or when the team in the midst of a losing streak. This team will struggle at times and the mood on here will quickly change and all these grand thoughts will seem like a distant memory.
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Post by magnusbu on Dec 2, 2005 13:22:14 GMT -5
High end prediction so far for me would be sneaking into the NIT
Low end would be 8-10 wins.
I don't think we will have fewer than 8 wins and if we reach the high end then we will barely sneak into the NIT. Its 2 years from now that is getting me really excited about this team. It sure would be nice to land a monster big man is this recruiting class.
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Post by CoachSBU on Dec 2, 2005 20:26:18 GMT -5
Good old, Fro. Ready to point out how overly optimistic people might be getting. Man, does the word "hope" mean anything to you? This team is showing signs of life and it hasn't been just the result of "one" game. No, it wasn't a victory over UConn, like your icon of a coach led us to, but it is something to bank on and realistically look forward to the future for.
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Post by FroMunga on Dec 3, 2005 2:10:22 GMT -5
I'm sorry Coach, I meant to say this team was a lock for the Final Four. Hope and reality often times end up being completely different. And yes, all the new found high hopes are based on one game. Due to WV having so many returning players from last year's succesful team the fact that it was a close game has certainly influenced peoples expectations. Criticize me all you want for using logic rather than blind optimism. This team has cetainly made huge strides from last year but I think people have failed to keep in perspective just how bad last year's team was. They were bound to show improvement this year. They are also probably better than most people anticipated but doesn't automatically equate to NIT status. They are 2-2 with wins over Robert Morris and Canisius. I'm afraid their weak non-conference schedule is only going to increase the expectations of the fans. This program needs a weak non-conference schedule after last year for a few reasons. First the players need to learn how to win games. Second by padding the win column makes the program more attractive to recruits which helps the program down in the years to come. However, I fully expect this team to go thru some growing pains during conference play. When was the last time the program won a road game? With the nature of sports, you also have to expect an injury or two along the way...in addition to Relph's.
Sorry I'm not a girl's intramural coach, therefore, I obviously have no insight to the world of athletics. All I said was it's way to early to be talking about NIT. Especially for a program coming off a 2 win season. If that happens to kill your buzz then so be it, but I always have, and always will call it as I see it and right now I am extremely guarded in my expectations. Program is headed in the right direction but I think too many of you are expecting too much too soon.
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Post by sbu79 on Dec 3, 2005 8:40:03 GMT -5
Let's see how tonight's game turns out. After Wednesday's emotional, "moral victory", a solid performance would say a lot about this team. Being guarded, I worry about a let down and a flat performance. Here's looking for a win comparable to RMU and Canisius.
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Post by Chuck on Dec 3, 2005 9:18:13 GMT -5
In today's OTH, Ahmad Smith is even taking a cautious outlook. He commented "I know there is a buzz, but we have to focus on winning and if we keep winning I hope the buzz continues. It's a big concern for me, I was here when we came close to beating Syracuse 2 seasons ago and there was a buzz around here. When we came back home we lost to Canisius. Last year we played UMass great (double OT loss) and then lost to St. Joe's by 40."
The comparison to Syracuse 2 seasons ago is eerily similar. The Bonnies were 2-1 prior to playing Syracuse, which is identical to this season record, prior to playing W. Virginia. In both game the Bonnies make dramatic comeback to make it close. In both game Michael Lee comes out of no where and has a great game. The only difference we need is the Bonnies using this game as a springboard for the season and not being the highlight. Honestly there is no doubt this team has more talent than the team of 2 years ago. Still St. Francis is a game the Bonnies have to win and should be expected to win.
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Post by CoachSBU on Dec 3, 2005 21:45:48 GMT -5
The difference is that two years ago, we knew what direction we were going in even though we played Syracuse tough -- DOWN! We still had to suffer through the most excruciating part of the repurcussions of the sanctions. Now, we are waiting to see what direction Anthony Solomon and his understudies can take us and with what I saw Wednesday evening, with the young talent that displayed itself, mingled in with the old, I can really see signs of a potential upswing. And I'm not the only one. Hey! If things look different in February or March, I'll be the first one to admit that I was a little too optimistic. My point here is that, no matter what, there are certain people on this board who have to really sound off in a negative fashion. If somehow we did have a magical season, such as Kent State had in making it to the Elite Eight a few years ago, these dissenters would add something to the effect that we still couldn't win it all. These dissenters can express themselves all they want. Sometimes Fro has some impressive things to say. I'll just express my freedom at being able to say that I don't agree with the negativism, even if they do have a right to express it.
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Post by Dez on Dec 4, 2005 0:16:33 GMT -5
I know Fro can be a pain, but I think we are being a bit unfair with the "negativism" lables. He makes some valid points. This is a young team that has now played 5 games together. Things are clearly moving in the right direction, but talk of an NIT? Come on, we won 2 last year. The future looks very brigt, bust like before the season began, 10 - 12 would be outstanding for the program.
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