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Post by res on Sept 12, 2014 8:11:59 GMT -5
This issue has been discussed on this forum and its predecessor for over two decades with very little consensus of opinion. It's clear that solid arguments can be made on either side. Nonetheless, if it had been up to me, I would have done everything reasonably possible to have had a game in Buffalo and a game in Rochester every season. And by Buffalo, I do not mean Koessler or Alumni Arena. Scheduling being what it is, and given the previous managers of First Niagara (HSBC), it wouldn't have happened every year, but I still would have made the attempt.
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Post by ceharv on Sept 12, 2014 8:22:17 GMT -5
I agree with many thoughts on the topic, but I also think scheduling games is a huge challenge for a mid level program that plays tough at home. So I think we n eed to give the AD some leeway here. It is OK to experiment and to see what works and decide thereafter based on the results. My bottom line is that if you're still able to offer the paying folks the same number of home dates as in prior years, and you are not taking a game away from the students anyway, then this is the year to conduct the experiment, so give it a shot. Plus I suspect no one in Olean is really going to miss G. Mason anyway, whereas some folks in Roch will go to see the Bonnie's play the Sisters of the Poor, thank goodness.
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Post by gdub2009 on Sept 12, 2014 8:41:00 GMT -5
I have no problems playing the Mason game in Rochester. The RC is totally different when the students aren't there. I would actually like to see the record of the RC when students are on break. I wonder if it is anywhere close to the 70% winning percentage?
tasty, I doubt Pitt is going to Buffalo or Rochester in the coming years. I am guessing that is a buy game for them to gear up before the ACC season starts. Very rarely to the Power Conference teams schedule away games anymore in the non-conference. They schedule tournaments or neutral site games for their biggest non-conference games. Pitt would have noticed that NC State and Va Tech had trouble at the BC Arena. There is no reason for them to risk hurting their resume with this game.
Now if Bonas starts getting in the top 50 of the RPI each year I do believe teams would be willing to come to the FNC or BC Arena. Until then it is too much of a risk hurting their resume by losing that game.
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Post by njbonnie08 on Sept 12, 2014 8:45:33 GMT -5
At least our topic/short piece generated some interested and dialog! We should have something up later this morning to lead you guys into the weekend. We'll be back with some other takes next week. Thanks for visiting and the feedback we've been getting. Also, you guys can post comments on our site as well. I know it will never be the 'Wagon, but if you want to just drop a line or two you can just click the comment button under each article. - thebonablog.wordpress.com/
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Post by Cassian on Sept 12, 2014 9:03:09 GMT -5
I think we should play games in Wayland, Angelica and Hamburg.
But truthfully if you want to get Canadians play a game in Toronto or even an exhibition game up there - couldn't hurt could it? What if we agreed to play the Niagara game up there - could be a giant bust but….
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Post by Saulius Dumbliauskas on Sept 12, 2014 9:10:22 GMT -5
I think we should play games in Wayland, Angelica and Hamburg. But truthfully if you want to get Canadians play a game in Toronto or even an exhibition game up there - couldn't hurt could it? What if we agreed to play the Niagara game up there - could be a giant bust but…. A game in Toronto is way better than a game in Rochester. I know we serve a large Alumni base there (I am originally from ROC) but do we recruit there? No, we do not.
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Post by njbonnie08 on Sept 12, 2014 9:20:43 GMT -5
Also agree with the Toronto idea. I'd rather have a game in Canada for recruiting reasons than in Rochester (no offense to the Tyler Relph's and McQuaid kids of the world). It would be cool to go play one game a year up there...not sure how hard that would be logistically (arenas, money, passports, etc).
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Post by gdub2009 on Sept 12, 2014 9:37:17 GMT -5
The interesting part about Toronto would be you wouldn't have to play in the Air Canada Center. The Toronto Marlies have an arena that sits around 9,000 I am guessing for basketball. Thing is I have no idea if people would show up for a game in Toronto.
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Post by Sipowicz on Sept 12, 2014 9:55:16 GMT -5
The staff is recruiting two 2016 prospects, QUINTON ROSE from Rochester and STAFFORD TRUEHEART from Buffalo. If playing one game a year in Rochester or Buffalo would be a deciding factor in land both or either of these two players, I am all for it. In addition, I believe the staff has also offered 6-4 AARON TUCKER 2016 of Kenmore West(Buffalo), AARON is originally from Detroit and along with his Dad is a huge Pistons fan(Could probably use a little help from Mr. Lanier on this).
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Post by tastylicks on Sept 12, 2014 11:08:50 GMT -5
The staff is recruiting two 2016 prospects, QUINTON ROSE from Rochester and STAFFORD TRUEHEART from Buffalo. If playing one game a year in Rochester or Buffalo would be a deciding factor in land both or either of these two players, I am all for it. In addition, I believe the staff has also offered 6-4 AARON TUCKER 2016 of Kenmore West(Buffalo), AARON is originally from Detroit and along with his Dad is a huge Pistons fan(Could probably use a little help from Mr. Lanier on this). See this is the kinda of stuff I feel strongly against. Your post and the toronto ones. Nothing against those players, I am sure they are good and I'd love to have them suit up for St. Bonaventure but where is the personal integrity of the program? The message should be - we are big time basketball in your backyard already and we want you to be a part of the special experience of St. Bonaventure and games at the RC. But scheduling games in recruit's cities just so we can land them? what the heck. Maybe we should play a game in their high school gym or even better their driveway? I exaggerate but this is a silly reason to play a game somewhere. I think and I really hope the reason they are scheduling the games outside of the RC is more of a business decision and not to chase recruits. That is so short term thinking that it is ridiculous. If you are going to move a game based on certain players you should do so for guys that have done a lot for the program. Like for example a Toronto game when it was Nicholson's senior year, to reward him for all he did for the program by playing a game in his backyard. That's how you run a class program. Not playing a game up there for kids who may or may not even attend.
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Post by Pinnum on Sept 12, 2014 12:48:35 GMT -5
I wanted to refrain from really getting into it but...
Everyone knows, the staff has been trying for years to lure top teams to Rochester since no one will play SBU at the RC. Why has it suddenly become so hard? The answer is simple. Television.
Television controls schedules now. Sales and marketing is all about distribution and the best way to get out there is through Television. Everyone knows this and it has changed the market completely. The host controls television rights. Teams are now first concerned about television and secondly concerned about home attendance.
The money from television is so much greater and the number of people that are able to watch a team is so much greater through television than through hosting. Game attendance is an antiquated metric. This is the reason the Battle4Atlantis pays out the most money ($1 Million to the winner) of all the exempt MTEs despite being held in a hotel ballroom with nearly no seating.
For comparison, we are bickering about what venue will be better at drawing an extra 500 to a thousand more fans but Hartford and Florida Gulf Coast was watched by 115k people last year due to television.
This is one reason the major teams won't leave their home venue unless they have a big game that will draw a lot of TV money.
The other reason is incidentally the also a television model. It is the subscription fees model. If you want to watch Big Ten football you have to pay for the whole BTN, if you want to watch American Pickers you have to pay for all of the history channel. You can't just pay for the shows you want to watch and if they are part of a premium package you have to pay for the whole premium package.
This is the same reason why Pitt is paying Savannah State $100k for a game. Savannah State is not worth $100k by themselves. But Pitt has to play someone for Pitt to be valuable. Pitt sells their season tickets long before they schedule Savannah State. Anyone who knows consumer psychology knows that adding perceived value is effective in persuading consumers when upselling even though it is often not a real value that will be realized.
People know that if they want to ensure they can see Pitt play Duke, UVA, or Syracuse at the Peterson, they need to buy season tickets. This means that they have to buy the whole slate of home games and Pitt is able to upsell the fans on the prospect of getting to see many Pitt games with the addition of the buy games. Pitt doesn't really care if these fans decide to not attend these games because they have already been paid and they are getting a game which they need anyways while getting the added benefit of playing at home. Pitt and the ACC just need wins out of conference they don't care about the quality because the conference will take care of the rest.
If I was in a major conference, I would not be interested in scheduling a game in Rochester against St Bonaventure. SBU offers me no value. In fact they could cost me a lot.
I have been an advocate, for a while, of the Rochester games and I believe they should be big games. And what makes Bonaventure different than Niagara and Siena is the A10. This is big time basketball in the A10. I think SBU should be selling the A10 in Buffalo and Rochester. Yes, there is a RC game lost but it gets A10 basketball in front of new fans and if it is when the students are away from campus it is not really a loss of a home court advantage because the games are not that great of an environment without the students.
SBU is in a conference that is trying to become a major contender in regards to everything--including television rights. SBU can be proud of the home crowd in Olean but there is no money in that. The Olean market is peanuts. The Olean Media Market is 167,000 which puts it outside the top 200. Even if SBU captures 100% of the local market it still is minimal distribution for television. #54 Rochester is 932,000 and #52 Buffalo is 987,100. If SBU wants to help the A10, they need to have a presence in a top 100 media market. This means they need to be rated in either Buffalo or Rochester. Currently, RIT Ice Hockey is the only D1 sport in the Rochester Market and SBU has been building a good presence in Rochester with their annual game. The team performs very well at Blue Cross and the fans get behind the team with the attendance rivalry the RC but filled with new fans that do not readily visit the RC.
As much as we want to excel in the A10, we need to add value to the A10 or we will see more teams willing to jump ship to other conferences because SBU is decreasing the conference's value.
Personally, I would like to see a second Rochester game added. I would have no problem what-so-ever with playing VCU, St Joes, or Dayton in Rochester once every six or so years because it would help sell SBU. What we need is more people in these areas wanting to go to school at SBU and more people who want to watch A10 basketball on TV. Buffalo and Rochester are the keys here.
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Post by tastylicks on Sept 12, 2014 13:10:17 GMT -5
playing niagara or george mason outside of the RC increases Bonaventure's value to the A10? That's a strange take.
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Post by Pinnum on Sept 12, 2014 13:27:12 GMT -5
playing niagara or george mason outside of the RC increases Bonaventure's value to the A10? That's a strange take. Let's say there are 4,000 people that are die hard Bonnies fans in Olean. There are also 2,000 die hard Bonnies fans in Buffalo and 2,000 in Rochester. There are also 3,000 casual Bonnies fans in Olean, 5,000 in Buffalo and 5,000 in Rochester. Using these metrics, at any one site, RC, BCA, FNC, there will probably be 5k fans in attendance. So, for the Bonnies the games are interchangeable it doesn't really matter where they play. You add in the cost to host off campus and the RC may be the best place to play when taking this micro view. So when the Bonnies play a conference road game on TV they are currently attracting the attention of roughly 20k viewers. This is a metric that the A10 member schools care about because this is a number television networks and advertisers care about. However, the Olean Market is saturated and won't really see any growth in fans following. While the Rochester market has a lot of basketball fans that don't get to see college basketball live and if there is high level basketball it will just draw even more. The key is growing the pie. The Bonnies need a larger fan base of people that are willing to tune in when the Bonnies are on television. There is already a very faithful SBU following from the proud alumni and I believe this can rub off on others and grow the number of potential watchers. It isn't unrealistic to think the number of casual SBU fans in Buffalo or Rochester could double in the next few years with the games played there and the added exposure of the conference. 50k viewers is the minimum needed to attract the interest of major networks like ESPN2, ESPNU, FS1 for a non-peak game time or to be high demand for a Regional Sports Network.
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Post by tastylicks on Sept 12, 2014 13:34:12 GMT -5
I live in between rochester and buffalo. I could be a great potential season ticket holder at the RC as a local alum that loves the Bonnies and has no issue driving an hour/ hour and a half to see them. And I have considered it actually.There are undoubtedly Lots of people just like me with the alumni base SBU has in ROC and Buffalo.
Just 3 years ago you could get a season ticket for roughly $150 and as a new season ticket holder they offered a promotion to get a second for $50. That was a great plan because nobody buys just 1. $200 for two season ticket holders and they honestly probably have us hooked for 20 years after that even without the promotion the following year.
Then they made many changes, they outsourced a lot of the season ticket process, it's $165 for just 1 bare minimum seat (without a BAF donation) this puts you in the seats above the rafters, no discount for a second ticket or for new ticket holders. AND now they move a popular traditional home game out AND they move a league home game out too. (both of which are closer to these potential customer bases) Hmm lets see - maybe I will stay at home, attend the 2 attractive games in my backyard and maybe just go to one or two games at the RC instead of buying season tickets.....
What I am getting at is that they are making it too easy for Buffalo and Rochester fans and alumni like myself to not buy season tickets. And there are a lot of us. I sure hope they don't wonder why season ticket sales aren't increasing. And what about the actual season ticket holders in the Olean area as well?
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Post by Pinnum on Sept 12, 2014 13:44:17 GMT -5
I live in between rochester and buffalo. I could be a great potential season ticket holder at the RC as a local alum that loves the Bonnies and has no issue driving an hour/ hour and a half to see them. And I have considered it actually.There are undoubtedly Lots of people just like me with the alumni base SBU has in ROC and Buffalo. Just 3 years ago you could get a season ticket for roughly $150 and as a new season ticket holder they offered a promotion to get a second for $50. That was a great plan because nobody buys just 1. $200 for two season ticket holders and they honestly probably have us hooked for 20 years after that even without the promotion the following year. Then they made many changes, they outsourced a lot of the season ticket process, it's $165 for just 1 bare minimum seat (without a BAF donation) this puts you in the seats above the rafters, no discount for a second ticket or for new ticket holders. AND now they move a popular traditional home game out AND they move a league home game out too. (both of which are closer to these potential customer bases) Hmm lets see - maybe I will stay at home, attend the 2 attractive games in my backyard and maybe just go to one or two games at the RC instead of buying season tickets..... What I am getting at is that they are making it too easy for Buffalo and Rochester fans and alumni like myself to not buy season tickets. And there are a lot of us. I sure hope they don't wonder why season ticket sales aren't increasing. And what about the actual season ticket holders in the Olean area as well? Problem is... you didn't buy the season tickets. Almost... that is worthless. I actually almost bought Google stock in 2005. Also, worthless. There are a lot of people that could but don't. Until people act it means nothing. SBU is making decisions in an attempt to entice people to act.
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