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Post by sbu79 on Oct 24, 2014 10:25:14 GMT -5
I don't know about the exception becoming the rule, but again, you need to put things into the proper context. Get it? It's important to take things into context and to use logic. Here's the proper context. If the reports are true, UNC cheated, in a big way. You are right in both your posts 84. Demourse, for some reason, seems to be an apologist for Dean Smith Roy Williams, although his point that this is larger than an athletic scandal is correct. I wasn't going to reply again (but you got me going), but the logic in my post would not lead to the conclusion that cars were safer at the turn of the last century than now. My logic was to apply a basis of comparison to raw numbers as demanded by Demourse (students per year per coach). If I did the same with the traffic fatality numbers, I would apply a standard of comparison such as number of cars on the road in each year. I would likely have concluded that cars had moved from being the exception to being the rule over that time span. Why did this happen? As Demourse said, because there was a demand for them, just like there was a demand for those classes at UNC. While it's contemptible that the athletic department participated in this scheme, we should be questioning things at a broader level regarding why these courses existed and when they crossed the line from, perhaps, legitimate research oriented curriculum to apparent shams.
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Post by Bona84 on Oct 24, 2014 10:29:47 GMT -5
Here's the proper context. If the reports are true, UNC cheated, in a big way. You are right in both your posts 84. Demourse, for some reason, seems to be an apologist for Dean Smith, although his point that this is larger than an athletic scandal is correct. I wasn't going to reply again (but you got me going), but the logic in my post would not lead to the conclusion that cars were safer at the turn of the last century than now. My logic was to apply a basis of comparison to raw numbers as demanded by Demourse (students per year per coach). If I did the same with the traffic fatality numbers, I would apply a standard of comparison such as number of cars on the road in each year. I would likely have concluded that cars had moved from being the exception to being the rule over that time span. Why did this happen? As Demourse said, because there was a demand for them, just like there was a demand for those classes at UNC. While it's contemptible that the athletic department participated in this scheme, we should be questioning things at a broader level regarding why these courses existed and when they crossed the line from, perhaps, legitimate research oriented curriculum to apparent shams. Agreed, '79.
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Post by az63 on Oct 24, 2014 11:22:05 GMT -5
Here's the proper context. If the reports are true, UNC cheated, in a big way. You are right in both your posts 84. Demourse, for some reason, seems to be an apologist for Dean Smith Roy Williams, although his point that this is larger than an athletic scandal is correct. I wasn't going to reply again (but you got me going), but the logic in my post would not lead to the conclusion that cars were safer at the turn of the last century than now. My logic was to apply a basis of comparison to raw numbers as demanded by Demourse (students per year per coach). If I did the same with the traffic fatality numbers, I would apply a standard of comparison such as number of cars on the road in each year. I would likely have concluded that cars had moved from being the exception to being the rule over that time span. Why did this happen? As Demourse said, because there was a demand for them, just like there was a demand for those classes at UNC. While it's contemptible that the athletic department participated in this scheme, we should be questioning things at a broader level regarding why these courses existed and when they crossed the line from, perhaps, legitimate research oriented curriculum to apparent shams. Not sure he's an apologist - just seemed to me that he was talking down to some of us - but then again, maybe he's really the smartest guy in the room
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Post by efsboca on Oct 25, 2014 19:29:07 GMT -5
efsboca - I respectfully disagree. If the NCAA or UNC had said - "and that's the end of the matter", then certainly play the card, but that hasn't happened. From what I can tell, the investigation is not completed, and neither the school nor the NCAA has announced what is to be done about what was found, if anything. I agree they should certainly get hammered and while I am concerned they will not - or it will be so perceived, I still think the better course is to let it play out. I confess, however that I am perhaps more sensitive then most here to the "poor little us, we got screwed" attitude, as I think our sins were in fact some of the most egregious ever and I cringe at the thought that revisionist historians might be attempting to minimize that. My understanding is the initial NCAA investigation was closed. They have yet to reopen the investigation, but with all the press, I anticipate that happening.
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Post by Pinnum on Oct 26, 2014 12:07:31 GMT -5
efsboca - I respectfully disagree. If the NCAA or UNC had said - "and that's the end of the matter", then certainly play the card, but that hasn't happened. From what I can tell, the investigation is not completed, and neither the school nor the NCAA has announced what is to be done about what was found, if anything. I agree they should certainly get hammered and while I am concerned they will not - or it will be so perceived, I still think the better course is to let it play out. I confess, however that I am perhaps more sensitive then most here to the "poor little us, we got screwed" attitude, as I think our sins were in fact some of the most egregious ever and I cringe at the thought that revisionist historians might be attempting to minimize that. My understanding is the initial NCAA investigation was closed. They have yet to reopen the investigation, but with all the press, I anticipate that happening. The NCAA reopened the investigation June 30, 2014. UNC provided the recently released report to the NCAA as part of their cooperation efforts.
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