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Post by jh on Nov 30, 2014 10:04:48 GMT -5
The draw can only be so good given the fact that the teams on the court represent 1 NCAA appearance in the last 35 years - the college hoops fans of Buffalo did not fail - their teams failed them - Buffalo & Cleveland are the only 2 major cities in the NorthEast that did not have a team in the Big East.
My hope of playing 3 games in the Buffalo major league arena is looking down the road where we have NCAA success and WE can draw the 12k fans in ourselves because they would come to see one team St Bonaventure. If we can tap into that Canada pipeline and get our program to a Xavier type level where we can win 25 games and have multiple NCAA appearances - our program can grow and bring in more revenue by having as many as 3 games where we take the $$$ near 250k/game to play with (tickets sold at $20 each). Win and fans will come - its absurd to think Buffalo would not come out to see quality college basketball - there is no basis for that. They will not come out to see a Niagara or a Canisius win 9 games a year - thats just not QUALITY college basketball and everyone in Buffalo knows it. And yes the major reason why I would want Buffalo games over Rochester has nothing to do with the city and folks of Rochester who are wonderful and I have many friends there. Buffalo just happens to be as close as one can get to the oil well of hoop talent that is in southern Ontario. If we are ever to hope to reach a sweet16 type lvel again it would be because we found a way to be a valid option for some of those kids coming out of there - perhaps 2 of the biggest talents we are in on surprise surprise are Toronto kids 6'10 Kyle Alexander and 6'7 225lb Tyrell Green. 2016 has PG Nelson Kaputo and 6'9 PG Khalif Young. If it helps a recruiter to be able to tell the parents of Canadian kids we play a few games a year 1 hour drive from their door in a major league arena in a state of the art sports complex that includes a 20 story Mariott twin hockey rinks and a sports niteclub all attached - then I do it. Rochester cannot offer that like Buffalo can. 5 Canadian players & 24 win seasons playing 3 games a year before 12k+ crowd is where we want to get to
For now we take baby steps and continue with this annual doubleheader and focus on what it takes for us to get our program back to the NCAA. Observations on the promoting of this event: 1 - uniforms were a great idea tapping into all hoop fans in wny - unfortunately it seemed about the only promotion idea 2- there needed to be coach interviews on wgr55 sports radio during the week before - we heard none 3- the day before the games on Friday there was not a single mention in the Buffalo news of the games wtf? 4- I did not see a single boy scout or youth group at the game - why was a simple kids package not offered across wny 5- coach schmidt was right in indicating the arena did not even put up curtains to block off seats - showed lack of thought I'm sure some of these lack of promotions might hinder the rochester crowds too
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Post by ceharv on Nov 30, 2014 15:06:09 GMT -5
Jh - all the J grads we have in Buff and there was no mention of the games in the local rags? That is crazy-bad work or non-work by someone. Who sponsored this and was supposed to be trying to sell tix? Some people were asleep at the switch. Geez a bunch of students working on a class project could have done better thn that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 19:27:32 GMT -5
JH, first there were five NCAA bids represented on the floor in the last 35 years on the floor Saturday. 2 by SBU and Niagara and one for Canisius. Not enough, but we might as well be accurate if stats are going to be thrown around.
We did miss the boat with the Big East. The story I always heard from pretty reliable sources was that we could have been admitted if we had agreed to play our home games in Buffalo. Hind sight being 20/20 we should have taken that deal. Interestingly Georgetown and John Thompson advocated for SBU to get in while the pointy nosed whiner from mid state was against us not wanting to have competition this close.
As a consolation prize we then joined the Eastern 8. This has been a good association for us, but we have struggled to compete. Your argument that we should play games in Buffalo to somehow establish a pipeline to Toronto is delusional. Toronto is not some outpost that only we have access to, they have planes and phones there even! I agree we should recruit there, but we need to sell our school and our conference not Buffalo.
Where weere the 12,000 that you promised? it was a sterile atmosphere with only 7000 there. Buffalo proves once again that they don't support local college hoops.
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Post by jh on Nov 30, 2014 21:58:31 GMT -5
JH, first there were five NCAA bids represented on the floor in the last 35 years on the floor Saturday. 2 by SBU and Niagara and one for Canisius. Not enough, but we might as well be accurate if stats are going to be thrown around. We did miss the boat with the Big East. The story I always heard from pretty reliable sources was that we could have been admitted if we had agreed to play our home games in Buffalo. Hind sight being 20/20 we should have taken that deal. Interestingly Georgetown and John Thompson advocated for SBU to get in while the pointy nosed whiner from mid state was against us not wanting to have competition this close. As a consolation prize we then joined the Eastern 8. This has been a good association for us, but we have struggled to compete. Your argument that we should play games in Buffalo to somehow establish a pipeline to Toronto is delusional. Toronto is not some outpost that only we have access to, they have planes and phones there even! I agree we should recruit there, but we need to sell our school and our conference not Buffalo. Where weere the 12,000 that you promised? it was a sterile atmosphere with only 7000 there. Buffalo proves once again that they don't support local college hoops. In recruiting Toronto you sell your biggest advantage - location - or do you think the Alexander kid is choosing between the ACC and St Bonas because he likes our Hickey dining hall? Playing games in Buffalo (which also happens to be SBU's biggest alumni base)simply enhances the advantage we have - better yet play a game in Toronto! Its funny how the near empty crowd hit a number Rochester games can only dream of - sorry I prefer my school play in a Major League city in a major league arena - not in front of 3k in a 60 year old arena in the minor leagues 60 miles up I90.
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Post by bonaman2013 on Nov 30, 2014 23:19:48 GMT -5
I much rather play in front of 5K in a 10,000 seat arena than 8000 in a 20000 seat venue. I know it was only this first game back, but I was not too impressed by the doubleheader setup or crowd.
Fans were not very loud at any part of the game, and it looks pretty sad when you have 7100 in such a big arena.
The Rochester games are always better without question. I do have hope for the series in Buffalo, but the casual fan doesn't care about the Little Three like they used to.
Rochester alumni base seems to be much more supportive than the Buffalo area alums.
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Post by tomgleason on Dec 1, 2014 6:59:32 GMT -5
I prefer to play in front of 4000 in a 5500? seat arena...The Reilly Center...especially with the raucous student section firing up the reds...do the cheerleaders ever go up above the blue backs to get the reds involved?
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Post by old timer on Dec 1, 2014 8:32:37 GMT -5
Yes, they do. But, then I can't see the game. Stay on the floor, I do enough yelling without them.
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Post by kcSBU03 on Dec 1, 2014 9:09:53 GMT -5
JH, first there were five NCAA bids represented on the floor in the last 35 years on the floor Saturday. 2 by SBU and Niagara and one for Canisius. Not enough, but we might as well be accurate if stats are going to be thrown around. We did miss the boat with the Big East. The story I always heard from pretty reliable sources was that we could have been admitted if we had agreed to play our home games in Buffalo. Hind sight being 20/20 we should have taken that deal. Interestingly Georgetown and John Thompson advocated for SBU to get in while the pointy nosed whiner from mid state was against us not wanting to have competition this close. As a consolation prize we then joined the Eastern 8. This has been a good association for us, but we have struggled to compete. Your argument that we should play games in Buffalo to somehow establish a pipeline to Toronto is delusional. Toronto is not some outpost that only we have access to, they have planes and phones there even! I agree we should recruit there, but we need to sell our school and our conference not Buffalo. Where weere the 12,000 that you promised? it was a sterile atmosphere with only 7000 there. Buffalo proves once again that they don't support local college hoops. In recruiting Toronto you sell your biggest advantage - location - or do you think the Alexander kid is choosing between the ACC and St Bonas because he likes our Hickey dining hall? Playing games in Buffalo (which also happens to be SBU's biggest alumni base)simply enhances the advantage we have - better yet play a game in Toronto! Its funny how the near empty crowd hit a number Rochester games can only dream of - sorry I prefer my school play in a Major League city in a major league arena - not in front of 3k in a 60 year old arena in the minor leagues 60 miles up I90. Just dont know when to stop do you? You argued with me for a solid week about how awesome the Buffalo event would be and how it would easily draw 12k because the NCAA tournament sells out there. Guess what, not even close. Now you are going after Rochester, who usually gets about 6k for their Bona games (which are usually during the week I might add)? Buffalo doesnt give a crap about college hoops anymore. The event, which I dont mind if it means we never have to play at Niagara or Canisius again, is still not a big selling point. I said the event would be lucky to draw 7k and it barely did. Listening on the radio I could barely hear a crowd. The storm from last week didnt stop the Bills from selling out so dont try to use that as an excuse. And the crowd that hit a number only Rochester can dream of? That was 4 school's worth of fans, not 1.
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Post by bartmitchell on Dec 1, 2014 9:11:56 GMT -5
Yes, they do. But, then I can't see the game. Stay on the floor, I do enough yelling without them. Old coach you really are living up to your name. "Get that cheerleader out of the way, I can't see the game "
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Post by tastylicks on Dec 1, 2014 10:45:34 GMT -5
In recruiting Toronto you sell your biggest advantage - location - or do you think the Alexander kid is choosing between the ACC and St Bonas because he likes our Hickey dining hall? Playing games in Buffalo (which also happens to be SBU's biggest alumni base)simply enhances the advantage we have - better yet play a game in Toronto! Its funny how the near empty crowd hit a number Rochester games can only dream of - sorry I prefer my school play in a Major League city in a major league arena - not in front of 3k in a 60 year old arena in the minor leagues 60 miles up I90. Just dont know when to stop do you? You argued with me for a solid week about how awesome the Buffalo event would be and how it would easily draw 12k because the NCAA tournament sells out there. Guess what, not even close. Now you are going after Rochester, who usually gets about 6k for their Bona games (which are usually during the week I might add)? Buffalo doesnt give a crap about college hoops anymore. The event, which I dont mind if it means we never have to play at Niagara or Canisius again, is still not a big selling point. I said the event would be lucky to draw 7k and it barely did. Listening on the radio I could barely hear a crowd. The storm from last week didnt stop the Bills from selling out so dont try to use that as an excuse. And the crowd that hit a number only Rochester can dream of? That was 4 school's worth of fans, not 1. I was one of the 7000 and it was verrrrrry quiet in there. I've been to louder masses at Doyle Chapel. The crowd seemed to be Bona's dominated though: no surprise. I left after the Bonnies easy victory and I suspect many did as well judging by the amount of brown shirts in the streets and taverns after the game. It would be interesting to know how many of the announced attendance were actually in their seats for UB / Canisius. The Bonnies played great so no disappointment there but the "event" was pretty disappointing. I'll throw a few suggestions in for next year - if there is a next year: -Bonnies don't give a up home game for that -Put chairs or bleachers on the floor behind the hoops. Might make the place seem louder or fuller. -Play it at night. You might have a more lively crowd. - Like schmidt said - tarp up the 300s. -make it a tournament where teams play multiple games and there is a winner. Whether that is just the "Big 4" or other invitees that would make it more interesting.
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Post by jh on Dec 1, 2014 10:47:06 GMT -5
In recruiting Toronto you sell your biggest advantage - location - or do you think the Alexander kid is choosing between the ACC and St Bonas because he likes our Hickey dining hall? Playing games in Buffalo (which also happens to be SBU's biggest alumni base)simply enhances the advantage we have - better yet play a game in Toronto! Its funny how the near empty crowd hit a number Rochester games can only dream of - sorry I prefer my school play in a Major League city in a major league arena - not in front of 3k in a 60 year old arena in the minor leagues 60 miles up I90. Just dont know when to stop do you? You argued with me for a solid week about how awesome the Buffalo event would be and how it would easily draw 12k because the NCAA tournament sells out there. Guess what, not even close. Now you are going after Rochester, who usually gets about 6k for their Bona games (which are usually during the week I might add)? Buffalo doesnt give a crap about college hoops anymore. The event, which I dont mind if it means we never have to play at Niagara or Canisius again, is still not a big selling point. I said the event would be lucky to draw 7k and it barely did. Listening on the radio I could barely hear a crowd. The storm from last week didnt stop the Bills from selling out so dont try to use that as an excuse. And the crowd that hit a number only Rochester can dream of? That was 4 school's worth of fans, not 1. KCSBU please follow the thread I was responding to Bona87 I didnt even see your posts NYC draws 5k for similar type doubleheader, Rochester games have been in 3500 mark but when Buffalo hits 7100 it proves Buffalo does not support college hoops? The atmosphere was not really there and much has to do with the organizers not paying attention to detail such as cutting off any seating with curtains or getting youth groups etcc...Siena and many other big arenas do this to promote atmosphere - it can and needs to be improved upon
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Post by jh on Dec 1, 2014 11:08:31 GMT -5
Tastylicks I agree with all you say - being up by 23 on Niagara did not help the noise at all especially how the Niagara program was gutted with the Mihalic departure going 7-26 last year. Matching the 2 weaker teams Canisius vs Niagara and then SBU vs UB would have been more competitive
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Post by Bona84 on Dec 1, 2014 11:21:45 GMT -5
Just dont know when to stop do you? You argued with me for a solid week about how awesome the Buffalo event would be and how it would easily draw 12k because the NCAA tournament sells out there. Guess what, not even close. Now you are going after Rochester, who usually gets about 6k for their Bona games (which are usually during the week I might add)? Buffalo doesnt give a crap about college hoops anymore. The event, which I dont mind if it means we never have to play at Niagara or Canisius again, is still not a big selling point. I said the event would be lucky to draw 7k and it barely did. Listening on the radio I could barely hear a crowd. The storm from last week didnt stop the Bills from selling out so dont try to use that as an excuse. And the crowd that hit a number only Rochester can dream of? That was 4 school's worth of fans, not 1. KCSBU please follow the thread I was responding to Bona87 I didnt even see your posts NYC draws 5k for similar type doubleheader, Rochester games have been in 3500 mark but when Buffalo hits 7100 it proves Buffalo does not support college hoops? The atmosphere was not really there and much has to do with the organizers not paying attention to detail such as cutting off any seating with curtains or getting youth groups etcc...Siena and many other big arenas do this to promote atmosphere - it can and needs to be improved upon The last three games in Rochester have drawn the following in attendance: Niagara: 4,758 NC State: 5,802 Va Tech: 5,285 Not in the 3,500 range. In any event, I like games in both cities - when the students are away, to build the following in both WNY cities.
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Post by Pinnum on Dec 1, 2014 11:31:47 GMT -5
The important thing to remember is that even if the Buffalo/Rochester games draw the same number of fans as the RC games is that they are not the same fans. While there are some fans that are attending both events, a large portion of the fans are people that would not attend an SBU game all year if it weren't for the games in their home city.
It is tough to get people to donate and support the program when they haven't been to a game in a while.
These games make perfect sense, especially when the students are on break. 7,000 fans is just the start. It is a very real possibility that UB will make the NCAA tournament this year. Those things will help draw for future years. If it becomes a staple of all four team's schedules it can become a tradition for people in the Buffalo area. What do you do on the Saturday after Thanksgiving? The same thing every year: the Big Four Classic.
It was a start. It was a success. It is a great collaborative effort by the WNY schools and gives them all an event that mirrors an NCAA tournament where they can play against local rivals. Keep building on it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 13:00:29 GMT -5
JH 1. Will you please just admit that getting 7000 was not good? I copied and pasted (below) from the thread in August when this was announced. If you would like I could post on it and we could rehash the whole thing. My prediction was 6000 yours was 12,000. I think I was closer. I was just a history major so maybe somebody could check the math?
2. I am all for playing games where we have support. Buffalo has not shown to be that area. One game is fine, but three or more is just not smart. Canadian kids are not going to come SBU because we play multiple games in an empty arena. If you believe this you have "jumped the shark" and it probably isn't worth arguing with you anymore. 3. Is there really a need to disparage Rochester as "minor league"? We get decent support there and it is also a place where we get many students from. 4. Rochester alums put their money where their mouths are for games played there. There will be sponsors that will help make this a profitable experience for us. Even if the attendance is 3500 we will make money. The arena is cheaper to get. The atmosphere will be ten times better there. (I have attended every Rochester and Buffalo game in the last 30 years so yes I do know that)While our history in Buffalo is great it isn't too shabby in Rochester either. Mark Jones, Mike Sheehey, Glenn Hagan, Nick Urzetta to name a few have come from this "minor league town". How about beating Syracuse and VCU to go to the NCAA? Two of my favorite moments in Bona history were in that minor league town.
We need to continue to cultivate both markets, but please deal in a little reality before making outrageous statements. At the end of the day we all support the Bonnies.
Bona87 One nice feature about this board is it keeps history - we can check back here after thanksgiving weekend and see how close your prediction of a "near empty arena" is or my 12k figure.
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