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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 10:32:43 GMT -5
Post by Cassian on Mar 24, 2009 10:32:43 GMT -5
Now that the season is over and hopefully any woeful discussions concerning thoughts on the MAAC, my feelings for the Atlantic 10 and its future may be a bit different from other posters and I would love to get feedback/discussion going on this topic.
I think the A-10 should expand to 16 teams and widen its geographic base.
Adding two teams means the league (With an 8 RPI) will have many schools interested in upping their conference by joining the A-10 league.
Here are some thoughts: Weigh in please.
Niagara - I expect that they would kill to join - Buffalo is still a decent size market and they are good at this time. Buffalo - see above Cleveland State - good market, good team, not my favorite but perhaps could be looked at. College of Charleston - I like looking south and they should be interested in jumping on board - could have an immediate rival with Richmond Jacksonville - small private school on the way up, in Florida expands conference reach. Florida Atlantic University - 35,000 students now attend - really increases A-10 reach. Boston University - expands conference north into one of the Country's largest metro areas Davidson - probably wouldn't be interested but could be a great fit for both parties. Would have immediate rival with Charlotte UNC Wilmington - stays in the basketball rich Carolinas. adds a fun school, outside thought State University at Oswego - just kidding.
Look forward to hearing your thoughts.
By the way, its time to go to ESPN and get that TV contract - when I can watch UT-Martin play on the U every week and the OVC is getting the love, the A-10 needs to re-emerge.
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 10:46:56 GMT -5
Post by jpschmack on Mar 24, 2009 10:46:56 GMT -5
Better off splitting into two groups of eight than to expand to 16.
Also, why in the hell would you make that list and not include BUTLER?
Also, FAU is D-I in football, therefore not leaving the Sun Belt for anyone but C-USA, or BCS.
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 11:11:12 GMT -5
Post by mikebossy22 on Mar 24, 2009 11:11:12 GMT -5
Ugh, no offense but does anyone else see barrage of typical off-season threads spinning off of this topic???
[sarcasm on]Well if FAU might be using it's football program to try to move into a BCS conference, does anyone think that maybe we should add a football program???[/sarcasm off]
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 11:35:39 GMT -5
Post by OleanSBU on Mar 24, 2009 11:35:39 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic.
Personally, I think our current status as a 14-team league is too much. I understood why the league wanted to bring in SLU and Charlotte, but I - along with many other A-10 fans that I've talked with - would have much rather seen us remain as a 12-team conference.
I miss the East and West Divisions. I miss playing certain schools twice each season. I don't think SLU has fit in very well, simply because it's way too far out of the way, and I don't think their own fan-base is satisfied with the A-10.
That said, here are some of my thoughts on your ideas:
Niagara/UB - this would really, really hurt us. The one big thing we've got going for us is selling our league in the Buffalo market. If you added a team like Niagara or UB, and forced us to split the market with them, we'd be in trouble for obvious reasons.
Cleveland State - they've had some recent success, but if you're looking at any team from the Horizon Conference making the jump to the A-10, I think Butler should be at the top of the list. It would be nice to add an A-10 team in Cleveland, though. It makes more sense than St. Louis....
College of Charleston - Much like St. Louis. Are we really ready to expand to South Carolina? And if we do, is the College of Charleston the best we can do?
Jacksonville - I don't think the A-10 ever wants to expand as far south as Florida. The people there probably couldn't tell you 80 percent of the teams in our league. That would be a tough sell both ways.
FAU - See Jacksonville. Also, do they have the commitment needed from their athletic dept. in terms of money, etc. to succeed in our league?
BU - Tough jump from the America East to the A-10. Even though BU has dominated their conference in recent years, they would be nowhere close to finishing in the middle of ours. Plus, their athletic dept. and fan base is much more interested in the hockey program than basketball.
Davidson - They are happy competing for the SoCon title each year and an automatic bid to the NCAA Tourney. They'll take their chances there.
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 12:05:01 GMT -5
Post by innerbarry on Mar 24, 2009 12:05:01 GMT -5
Where would UB play football if it joined the A10?
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 12:19:55 GMT -5
Post by davejohn on Mar 24, 2009 12:19:55 GMT -5
It's safe to say that 0% of these schools have any chance of joining the Atlantic 10.
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 12:21:55 GMT -5
Post by donniesbu82 on Mar 24, 2009 12:21:55 GMT -5
How about Siena College? That would be a nice rivialry fer us!
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 12:25:57 GMT -5
Post by davejohn on Mar 24, 2009 12:25:57 GMT -5
How about Siena College? That would be a nice rivialry fer us! Why would SBU want them in the A-10? They'd definitely be blocked.
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 12:31:31 GMT -5
Post by donniesbu82 on Mar 24, 2009 12:31:31 GMT -5
What do you mean by blocked?
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 12:39:30 GMT -5
Post by davejohn on Mar 24, 2009 12:39:30 GMT -5
What do you mean by blocked? Do you really think SBU would just sit back and allow another Franciscan school in New York state to just stroll into the league? Do you think Fordham would be all right with another NYS private school competing for recruits? It wouldn't happen just like Boston U will never happen as long as UMass is in the league.
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 12:44:24 GMT -5
Post by donniesbu82 on Mar 24, 2009 12:44:24 GMT -5
I guess your right.
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 13:06:09 GMT -5
Post by OleanSBU on Mar 24, 2009 13:06:09 GMT -5
While I personally wouldn't want Siena in the A10, I'm pretty sure that there isn't any "blocking power" that individual teams can use. If the majority of the schools in the conference wanted them in, and if the commish was on board, there isn't much we could do.
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 13:29:14 GMT -5
Post by presstowin on Mar 24, 2009 13:29:14 GMT -5
I wouldn't say never sa never to any of these teams possibly wanting to get in. Why would you say U Mass would oppose BU? Not surprised if BU didn't look at possibilities. They would love to upgrade at tap the recruits in the New England area that won't come to the inferior American East now. Nice metro market to draw city athletes. Boston has a lot to offer prospectives.
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A-16
Mar 24, 2009 13:33:35 GMT -5
Post by jpschmack on Mar 24, 2009 13:33:35 GMT -5
Expansion = bad. First off, that list of schools isn't bringing things to the league we need.
Secondly, the more conference games you have, the more losses you inflict on the league. 14 teams playing 16 games each, means someone has to lose 224 games. It would be 256 losses.
That only helps if you're ALL going 12-2 in OOC games. And we're not. Because no one respects our in-conference wins, the top half of our league has to schedule hard.
That means their records aren't as good (see Temple, SJU this year). And 9-7 in conference means you've got no shot at the dance.
We'd be much better off doing this:
Great Midwest: Charlotte, Dayton, Duquesne, Richmond, St. Bonaventure, Saint Louis, Xavier, Butler
Atlantic 8: Temple, LaSalle, Saint Joseph's, George Washington, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, George Mason, Fordham
Play 14 conference games. The fewer conference games you have, the less of the "conference effect" of RPI. That effect basically states that, as a conference, your Conf SOS will be between your OOC Win Pct and .500 (because you go .500 in conference games). So the fewer games you play in conference, the less it gets dragged towards .500.
Real quick, lets just take a look at conference RPI. The Great Midwest went 76-33 in non-conference. So our SOS from playing in conference would have been (.5973). Our OOC SOS last year was .5068, for a grand total of .5826 on our total SOS. Our conference RPI would be around .5680, which would have been fifth, ahead of the Pac 10.
The other conference would be ninth, same as before (only a new conference ahead of them).
Plus we have two non-conference games to schedule (Butler and George Mason would have four more). The reason the Mountain West went to a ninth team and 16 games was because they had problems finding OOC games the first week of January, but we'd have two leagues with eight teams, and relationships with those schools already. Part of the amicable split would be a scheduling agreement for the first week of January:
We do a one-game challenge, Matchups are announced two weeks before. We do it based on who needs what to help their resumes. If a team in the A-8 doesn't have a marquee win, they get Xavier to help them get one. If a team like St. Bonaventure played a brutal OOC schedule and went 6-7, they get Fordham to help them get a win. Etc.
Realistically, you'd be looking at and easy five teams in, with Duquesne, Rhody/Mason being among the last four in or first eight out.
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Mar 24, 2009 14:21:34 GMT -5
Post by davejohn on Mar 24, 2009 14:21:34 GMT -5
While I personally wouldn't want Siena in the A10, I'm pretty sure that there isn't any "blocking power" that individual teams can use. If the majority of the schools in the conference wanted them in, and if the commish was on board, there isn't much we could do. It isn't a literal iron fist with which schools can "block" other schools from joining a league, but there is a power there. Tell me, would Xavier or Dayton lay down while Cleveland State joined the league? Long standing members definitely have power and a lot of pull when it comes to who is and isn't considered when the conference chooses to expand.
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