lazer
Junior Member
Posts: 389
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Post by lazer on Oct 1, 2009 12:42:43 GMT -5
From time to time I still see security guards driving out from the parking lot there ... unless they're just parking while getting a McDonald's fix.  No, they're actually just issuing parking tickets. |
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Post by sneakers on Oct 1, 2009 13:33:47 GMT -5
No way does project have any legs. Who do they expect to fill the restaurants or spend money shopping? The Olean mall is a joke and it's not like people are going to drive to SBU to shop at the retail center. The university has ties to unsuitable properties that continue to be a money drain and this proposed plan makes absolutely no economic sense, especially given the current state of the economy but even more so the state of the local economy. This area does not need more restaurants or service jobs. I'm amazed that people who run an institution of education consistently miss this fundamental point. I'd feel even worse if SBU actually had an econ program instead of a makeshift program tied into the business school. I often wonder whether the local economy has remained in shambles for the last four decades or so because of the lack of optimism, enthusiasm, vision and risk taking by the local population. It seems like every attempt to build something nice and create some commerce in the area is met with nay-sayers. I haven't lived in the area since the mid-80's, but do the fine people of Olean realize the economy in the rest of the country was quite robust for most of the last 25 years? I can't think of why the Olean area would have missed the boat on this other than the negativity that seems to prevail. I guess that is a bit of a chicken and egg problem (which came first the negativity or the economic failure?). I look at the proposal for the Castle property and I'm excited for the possibilities. I think it will be great for the University and I would think the locals would love it. I would venture to speculate that in most areas of the country a project like this across the street from a University would be met with enthusiasm. |
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ka
Junior Member
Posts: 317
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Post by ka on Oct 1, 2009 13:53:39 GMT -5
No way does project have any legs. Who do they expect to fill the restaurants or spend money shopping? The Olean mall is a joke and it's not like people are going to drive to SBU to shop at the retail center. The university has ties to unsuitable properties that continue to be a money drain and this proposed plan makes absolutely no economic sense, especially given the current state of the economy but even more so the state of the local economy. This area does not need more restaurants or service jobs. I'm amazed that people who run an institution of education consistently miss this fundamental point. I'd feel even worse if SBU actually had an econ program instead of a makeshift program tied into the business school. I often wonder whether the local economy has remained in shambles for the last four decades or so because of the lack of optimism, enthusiasm, vision and risk taking by the local population. It seems like every attempt to build something nice and create some commerce in the area is met with nay-sayers. I haven't lived in the area since the mid-80's, but do the fine people of Olean realize the economy in the rest of the country was quite robust for most of the last 25 years? I can't think of why the Olean area would have missed the boat on this other than the negativity that seems to prevail. I guess that is a bit of a chicken and egg problem (which came first the negativity or the economic failure?). I look at the proposal for the Castle property and I'm excited for the possibilities. I think it will be great for the University and I would think the locals would love it. I would venture to speculate that in most areas of the country a project like this across the street from a University would be met with enthusiasm. amen |
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Post by towniegrad on Oct 1, 2009 19:42:11 GMT -5
fter the Castle finally closed,,sbu bought the property partially with funds from a federal grant obtained by an sbu alum named Walsh who was a Syracuse area Congressman...for the purpose of building a science building..I think.
Subsequently the property was mismanaged and finally had to be razed.
The story ended with an area institution disappearing
Local naysayers had nothing to do with that history ,and if the new project is a success it sounds like much of it will just replace what was there,albeit updated, properly modernized ,homogenized and suburban strip mallized. The students will love it and will never miss the history or singularity of what it replaces.
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Post by koab on Oct 1, 2009 19:59:31 GMT -5
Last time I was there, it looked as if the Desoto had either closed or was on its last legs. Wonder if the threat of another piece of property coming on the market pushed the school to move forward.
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Post by sneakers on Oct 1, 2009 21:16:32 GMT -5
fter the Castle finally closed,,sbu bought the property partially with funds from a federal grant obtained by an sbu alum named Walsh who was a Syracuse area Congressman...for the purpose of building a science building..I think. Subsequently the property was mismanaged and finally had to be razed. The story ended with an area institution disappearing Local naysayers had nothing to do with that history ,and if the new project is a success it sounds like much of it will just replace what was there,albeit updated, properly modernized ,homogenized and suburban strip mallized. The students will love it and will never miss the history or singularity of what it replaces. Don't rewrite history. At one point several decades ago the Castle was a nice property. In the end it was a complete and utter dump. The restaurant and the hotel were in terrible shape. Sadly, it was razed because it as worth nothing. SBU bought it so that it could control what was developed on that site. A plan to replace that dump with new apartments, a bowling alley, a sports lounge, hotel and conference space, restaurants, retail stores, a hockey rink and a sports complex with both indoor and outdoor multipurpose fields is a huge improvement. I hope they are able to successfully build this as it would be great for the school and great for the community. |
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Post by OleanSBU on Oct 1, 2009 21:55:06 GMT -5
As someone who grew up here, attends college here, and (hopefully if there are any jobs that fit my degree) plans to stay here, the news about the Castle property development is tremendous.
I can't begin to tell you how much something like this is needed in our area. And, whether or not it works, I'm extremely glad that someone is willing to try. This should be a huge recruiting tool for incoming freshmen at St. Bonaventure, as well as a great way for both high school and college students to spend free time away from the "normal" party venue where alcohol dominates all.
I hope it works, I'll certainly support it in whatever way I can, and I'm glad that business leaders are attempting to improve the quality of our area.
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Post by thebonafan08 on Oct 2, 2009 6:25:24 GMT -5
As someone who grew up here, attends college here, and (hopefully if there are any jobs that fit my degree) plans to stay here, the news about the Castle property development is tremendous. I can't begin to tell you how much something like this is needed in our area. And, whether or not it works, I'm extremely glad that someone is willing to try. This should be a huge recruiting tool for incoming freshmen at St. Bonaventure, as well as a great way for both high school and college students to spend free time away from the "normal" party venue where alcohol dominates all. I hope it works, I'll certainly support it in whatever way I can, and I'm glad that business leaders are attempting to improve the quality of our area. Thank you Oleansbu, I was beginning to think that the residents of the local area were just clueless and wanted things to fail. THIS IS A $60 MILLION facility going up right in front of Bonaventure, under Bonaventure supervision and mostly built for the use of Bonaventure students. All the expansion Boanventure has done on campus over the years cost around 25 million, imagine what 60 million can do! 60 million that is all being paid by private enterprise! If people do not see the benefit in that I a don't know what else to say. |
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Post by thebonafan08 on Oct 2, 2009 6:29:08 GMT -5
As someone who grew up here, attends college here, and (hopefully if there are any jobs that fit my degree) plans to stay here, the news about the Castle property development is tremendous. I can't begin to tell you how much something like this is needed in our area. And, whether or not it works, I'm extremely glad that someone is willing to try. This should be a huge recruiting tool for incoming freshmen at St. Bonaventure, as well as a great way for both high school and college students to spend free time away from the "normal" party venue where alcohol dominates all. I hope it works, I'll certainly support it in whatever way I can, and I'm glad that business leaders are attempting to improve the quality of our area. Thank you Oleansbu, I was beginning to think that the residents of the local area were just clueless and wanted things to fail. THIS IS A $60 MILLION facility going up right in front of Bonaventure, under Bonaventure supervision and mostly built for the use of Bonaventure students as well as the local community. All the expansion Bonaventure has done on campus over the years cost around 25 million, imagine what 60 million can do! 60 million that is all being paid by private enterprise! If people do not see the benefit in that I don't know what else to say. |
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Post by maplehurst on Oct 2, 2009 11:19:38 GMT -5
In the 1950s and 1960s the Castle was in Duncan Heinz's top 20 restaurants in the US. Butch was there to supervise every night. Butch's waitresses worked there for a long time. Many receptions were held there. It was an era of elegant dining. The Castle has passed into history. Olean hopes that the future of the property is benificial to all concerned, the students, community, and investors.
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Post by ceharv on Oct 2, 2009 13:03:31 GMT -5
A few years ago I bought some residential properties in the area. I was considering expanding into some commercial properties. Thus I found Sneakers' comment about local risk-taking, or the lack of it, interesting. I came away from my experience convinced that the local banks were so conservative about taking risks that the local economy would never take off - and this was during a national boom. If the banks won't share in a reasonable risk, no one is going to try, and if no one tries, nothing gets done.
I hope this development works, but the real questions is - is the money committed? $60M sure sounds nice, but I'd bet that no where near that has actually been committed, and anything not committed is just a hope.
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pepp
Sophomore Member
Posts: 145 
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Post by pepp on Oct 2, 2009 21:54:30 GMT -5
Sorry but I don't see this project getting off the ground to what is proposed. Is there really a demand for this type of project? From the way I see it, it is just cannibalization of existing facilities. Sure newer is better and what is in existence is old and outdated but it became old and outdated because the demand wasn't there to generate enough revenue to maintain existing facilities. The ice rink in Olean is far from profitable. A second ice rink (and newer) will decimate the Olean rink. Survival of the fittest I'm sure, but I don't see any economic gain. In fact, the largest municipality will lose different sources of revenue streams from this proposed project. More tax money leaving the city of Olean, will put more of a burden on the existing businesses as property tax, water rates, etc., will have to increase yet again. While I realize it's not Allegany's or SBUs responsibility to keep Olean viable, it is in their best interest.
With the dwindling population and economic environment in the Olean area in general, I don't see how this development will help. Rather it will just shift the money from one pocket to another with no net gain. I'm all for improvements but until the local job base makes a shift from service based (Walmart Supercenter, etc.) to something that will attract and retained skilled workers, all the entertainment and retail complexes in the world won't help.
SBU is the educational leader in the area but how many grads stay in the area? I realize it's not a perfect world and we don't live in a vacuum but until those with higher degrees find a reason to stay in the area, the Olean area will continue to decline. Most of that falls on leadership of the local communities but this isn't the time or place to discuss that.
The money nor the resources are in the area to support such an endeavor long term, especially in this economic environment. I applaud the leadership for at least trying something but I think the money and effort could be better spent on other more strategic endeavors.
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Post by jh on Oct 2, 2009 22:35:40 GMT -5
Sorry but I don't see this project getting off the ground to what is proposed. Is there really a demand for this type of project? From the way I see it, it is just cannibalization of existing facilities. Sure newer is better and what is in existence is old and outdated but it became old and outdated because the demand wasn't there to generate enough revenue to maintain existing facilities. The ice rink in Olean is far from profitable. A second ice rink (and newer) will decimate the Olean rink. Survival of the fittest I'm sure, but I don't see any economic gain. In fact, the largest municipality will lose different sources of revenue streams from this proposed project. More tax money leaving the city of Olean, will put more of a burden on the existing businesses as property tax, water rates, etc., will have to increase yet again. While I realize it's not Allegany's or SBUs responsibility to keep Olean viable, it is in their best interest. With the dwindling population and economic environment in the Olean area in general, I don't see how this development will help. Rather it will just shift the money from one pocket to another with no net gain. I'm all for improvements but until the local job base makes a shift from service based (Walmart Supercenter, etc.) to something that will attract and retained skilled workers, all the entertainment and retail complexes in the world won't help. SBU is the educational leader in the area but how many grads stay in the area? I realize it's not a perfect world and we don't live in a vacuum but until those with higher degrees find a reason to stay in the area, the Olean area will continue to decline. Most of that falls on leadership of the local communities but this isn't the time or place to discuss that. The money nor the resources are in the area to support such an endeavor long term, especially in this economic environment. I applaud the leadership for at least trying something but I think the money and effort could be better spent on other more strategic endeavors. And what other strategic endeavors would you propose??? you seem very good at shooting this idea down....what is yours? |
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Post by Jimmy Chitwood on Oct 3, 2009 7:00:37 GMT -5
Ask the University or the athletic programs if the demand exists for such a project. University's across the country are building multipurpose facilities right next to their campus. RIT and ND are two schools off the top of my head. A project like this would increase Bona's ability to recruit and retain future students and potentially increase enrollment. An increase in enrollment certainly presents an economic gain for the area. I also like the fact that Bona is going to review the potential for other majors. I don't know if the funding for the project will occur. I certainly hope it does. One has to spend money to make money. I think it's a great idea. Thinking beyond the status quo is a refreshing stance from Bona's. If Bona does well it is good for surrounding community.
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Post by capamerica on Oct 3, 2009 12:42:15 GMT -5
I heard the Castle property was going to be used to build a new 20,000 seat football stadium for the reinstated football team as well as some new dorms for all the new students that football will bring.
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