Rumored salary for Schmidt draws ire of faculty

[unclefrosty]

it never hurts to look at what others are doing

so what are other schools that are like SBU (enrollment, location, private)doing ? are they successful in what they are doing ? what elements could SBU take and make their own to realize success ?

please no comparisons to Gonzaga, Duke, BC

what school has been in a similar situation and risen above it to succeed ?

this might mean a 10/15 year plan, get rid of dead wood and money sucking employees that are exceptionally poor at their job (if you think I'm talking about you I probably am), building new dorms, adding new academic majors, adding/restructuring sport programs, considering the division and conference athletics participate in, etc...

the place is broken and needs to be fixed, it took 30 years to drive it into the ground and it will take time to re-build, let's all just hope the right people will come into the fold that can move SBU in the right direction

"just because you have done something for a longtime doesn't make it right or best, it just means you have done it for a longtime"
some famous dude said that, not sure who

[treedoyle]

Good post unclefrosty

[sneakers]

treedoyle said:

I agree with you sburizz. But some people see simply adding sports as THE answer. It's not.

Tree,

Again, please show me where anyone said this is "THE" answer. We are talking about sports being part of the answer to attract new students that would otherwise not have enrolled at SBU. Nobody has said that academics and facilities do not have to be improved. Of course they do.

You threw out a question that said "how many bandwagon members came to SBU because of lacrosse?" Probably very few as we don't have men's lacrosse. However, change "lacrosse" to baseball, golf or swimming and we all know people who came to SBU because it offered those sports and would not have otherwise.

As for profitability of adding a sport to attract students who we would not have attracted otherwise, I will just accept the fact that you must not be a finance or accounting major or otherwise understand business. That's ok.

As for Uncle Frosty's post, for the first time in a while I agree with Tree. Good post Frosty. We should look at what other schools like SBU are doing successfully. On the athletics side, I'd once again encourage people to check out the lacrosse programs at Hobart, RIT, Alfred, Canisius and many other local colleges.

We should also look at the academic programs that are most successful at these schools. Adding a criminal justice major seems like a no-brainer. As baby boomers age, health care services providers will be in huge demand. There are many other opportunities as well.

As for facilities, one of the best things we could do is to knock down the tired and worn cinderblock Rob/Fal dorms. They have well outlived their useful life. Replace them with a nice new modern dorm and reserve that dorm for Freshmen (and others to the extent they fit). That would be a huge sales point.

[treedoyle]

sneakers said:

treedoyle said:

I agree with you sburizz. But some people see simply adding sports as THE answer. It's not.

Tree,

Again, please show me where anyone said this is "THE" answer. We are talking about sports being part of the answer to attract new students that would otherwise not have enrolled at SBU. Nobody has said that academics and facilities do not have to be improved. Of course they do.

You threw out a question that said "how many bandwagon members came to SBU because of lacrosse?" Probably very few as we don't have men's lacrosse. However, change "lacrosse" to baseball, golf or swimming and we all know people who came to SBU because it offered those sports and would not have otherwise.

As for profitability of adding a sport to attract students who we would not have attracted otherwise, I will just accept the fact that you must not be a finance or accounting major or otherwise understand business. That's ok.

As for Uncle Frosty's post, for the first time in a while I agree with Tree. Good post Frosty. We should look at what other schools like SBU are doing successfully. On the athletics side, I'd once again encourage people to check out the lacrosse programs at Hobart, RIT, Alfred, Canisius and many other local colleges.

We should also look at the academic programs that are most successful at these schools. Adding a criminal justice major seems like a no-brainer. As baby boomers age, health care services providers will be in huge demand. There are many other opportunities as well.

As for facilities, one of the best things we could do is to knock down the tired and worn cinderblock Rob/Fal dorms. They have well outlived their useful life. Replace them with a nice new modern dorm and reserve that dorm for Freshmen (and others to the extent they fit). That would be a huge sales point.

I'll gracefully bow out of this argument. I don't have anything else to add.

I guess I didn't learn anything during my 15-year career in collegiate athletics since I wasn't a finance major and don't understand business.

[sburizz]

I really wouldn't say that St. Bonaventure has been "Run into the ground" we are only a couple of years removed from our highest enrollment ever and things are only gonna get better. Just wait and see.

[unclefrosty]

hey tree and sneakers, glad to see that althought not fully allied with each other you can see, for the best of SBU, there are some common things that can improve the cause

peace to both of you

sburizz, I hope that you are correct and things can continue to move steadily in a positive direction, but I will stand by my opinion that the school has been run into the ground, most of it thru lack of action, poor decision making, placement of completely incompetent people into high ranking position, lack of outreach to alums, incredibly poor accounting of funds, lack of ethics (even if isolated to Wick), little to no upkeep of infastructure, lack of "vision" and the list can go on and on. There have been/are some good people at the school, but just because you are on the right track doesn't mean you won't get run over and SBU althought maybe on the right track has been run over/passed by many other institutions. It's 2007 and thinking and acting like it's 1987/1977/1967 doesn't cut it and has put the school into a big hole, let's hope the slow/steady climb will continue.

peace

[O2level]

I can't believe that nobody has come to the ultimate conclusion... It's all FOX's fault (the Titanic, Kennedy, Lincoln, ... etc... now the fall of Bonas).

[softintheo]

Yes I do.

We are an accredited University that is an option to any potential student across the world to choose to continue their education.

Strip away all the layers of marketing, tradition, endowment, alumni networks, location, professors and you start with two identical entities for a prospective student. You can be an X-major at Harvard or you can be an X-major at St. Bonaventure.

I'm not saying that we compete for the same students, but it is fair to say that we are both competing for quality students.

From that starting point the school needs to justify what value it can add to attract and maintain a student population. Of course we can't ever expect to add the value that an Ivy League school does to a student's education. But in my opinion Bonaventure has the ability to add much more value than it currently does. I think a stronger entrepreneurship program would definitely be a step in the right direction, as would stronger strategic relationships with other schools that will allow students to continue their education after SBU.

sneakers said:

This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. Do you think we compete in any way with the schools on this list?

Also, by the way all of these schools have a football team, a men's lacrosse team, a field hockey team, an ice hockey team, a track and field team, a volleyball team, etc. They actually DO attract students that want to play these sports.

And, please tell me what poster said that adding athletics was the silver bullet to the problems the school faces? Of course is it only one piece of a college's marketing strategy. Who said otherwise? Some paper tiger you invented?

Get a clue.

[clubber]

Wow, you go away for a couple of weeks and you end up missing all the fun. It's like being caught in a riptide, every time you get close to shore, treedoyle and B-real pull you right back out to sea.
Tree, what I find most embarrassing about your post is you told us that you actually worked in D-I athletics. Were you just careless or to lazy to pick up a phone and call someone at Marist, Duquesne, Iona, Valpo, St Peter's, Jacksonville, Davidson or any of the other schools out there that play non-scholarship football to find out what the expenses are.
Since you were to inept, here are real #'s compared with your ridicules post. Let's refresh peoples memory.

Treedoyle said Bonas would spend,
1)10 coaches @ $75,000= $750,000
2)Game day staff/maintenance 5 home games $50,000=250,000.
We only need to look at those two to show people you didn't do your homework.

Here is the Marist Football Expenses .
Expenses by Object of Expenditures.
Guarantees and options paid=$0
Salaries=$136,639
Salary Benefits=$29,536
Recruiting=$13,510
Team Travel=$80,304
Equipment, uniforms, supplies=$49,785
Officials=$10,774
Fund Raising=$3,604
Contract services=$10,906
Pre Season Camp=$10,000
Other=$12,171

TOTAL=$357,229 THANK YOU!

Transplanted, the recruiting #'s I gave are legit and only scratch the surface of how many new potential students SBU would be marketed to. We discussed Title IX in the past, not much more to say. But let me ask you a ?. Campbell College will start their program soon and will not add or drop any sports. Colorado St.-Pueblo just announced they are reinstating their football program that was dropped in 1983. They will also add wrestling and track/ field. So my ? to you, if 64 schools since 2000 have started programs why should it stop Bonas from starting a program?
You can go to other message boards like Seton Hall, Santa Clara, BU and Charlotte and see the same football discussion we have had here from time to time. If you are one who would like to see this topic end you need to talk those that pontificate. If they would end the unsubstantiated posts there wouldn't be a need to respond.
But B-Real expressed how much he loves this topic so why wait until June to get it going.

[clubber]

And while I'm on B-Real's favorite subject, here is another A-10 school that may add football.

Football poll results announced
Josh Lanier & Michael Parks


The official football poll results were announced Monday (Feb 26). The vote, which 8,300 students (38.6 percent of 21,500 student enrolled at UNC Charlotte) participated in. This was the largest voter turnout in Student Government Association history.

The most important factor of the poll was that 78 percent of students favored an increase in student fees to support a team. How much they would be willing to pay varied greatly.

"Up to $100" had the most votes with 26.28 percent of students participating; "Nothing" and "Up to $200" came in at 21.86 percent and 23.42 percent respectively. "Up to $400" received 19.91 percent of the vote.

Of students polled, 59.44 percent said that they would attend 5-6 home games per season. This was by far the most popular choice of the question.

Students polled said that they would be willing to travel to games (55.98 percent students said they would be willing to travel 10-15 miles for a game) as well as be more interested in other Charlotte Athletic teams (58.91 percent said they'd be more interested in Charlotte Athletic as a result of the a football team).

Also found in the vote, students voted that they would return to Charlotte to attend games (67.21 percent). But most students (37.72 percent) said they attended no other school's football games last season.

Out of the students who voted 72.02 percent live off campus, and 83.7 were full time students



Comments from the poll:



Student Body President Ben Comstock on the turnout: "I'm very happy to see results like these. I went to an Association of Student Government meeting this weekend and told them we had almost 39 percent turnout, and they all almost fell out of their chairs because this is such an unprecedented accomplishment even state-wide"



Mandeep Gill, president of the Charlotte Football Initiative students, said: "Bottom line, [the students] have spoken on the issue of football. Now we await the administrations response"

[jmct]

clubber said:

Here is the Marist Football Expenses .
Expenses by Object of Expenditures.
Guarantees and options paid=$0
Salaries=$136,639
Salary Benefits=$29,536
Recruiting=$13,510
Team Travel=$80,304
Equipment, uniforms, supplies=$49,785
Officials=$10,774
Fund Raising=$3,604
Contract services=$10,906
Pre Season Camp=$10,000
Other=$12,171

TOTAL=$357,229 THANK YOU!

'(

I'm curious as to the source of the Marist numbers. They don't match up with those shown for Marist on the NCAA web-site. On that site, Marist football expenses for the previous year are shown as $457,000 and it is likely they have gone up since then. Also, Marist shows revenues being equal to expenses in every sport including football, which is only possible if they either add general funds into revenue or transfer a lot of expenses over to some sort of general non-athletic expense category.

Also, I'm not sure where to find football salaries. Can you give me a link since I'd love to review the salary numbers. Most private colleges do not publish this number. On the NCAA site, the average head coaching salary for all Marist head coaches was about $87,500 during 2005-06. Of course, Brady's salary raises this number (although it wouldn't have been real high for 2005-06). The average Marist salary for a full-time assistant coach is about $37,000, although I'm not sure how many of Marist's nine assistant coaches are full-time (definitely not all of them).

The other Marist expense not included in the numbers is the cost of their "new" stadium, which I'm sure will be over $5 Million, maybe a lot more.

One other item that should be considered is the cost of financial aid. Marist apparently does not show any number for this, but it is likely that they are giving out financial aid in a different way to football players. Looking at another central NY 1-AA program - Colgate - they give out so-called need-based aid to the tune of about $2.7 Million. Much of this money would be paid out as need-based aid to someone else anyway if they did not have football, but definitely not all of it, since they convert loans to grants frequently and also often give football players more aid than a normal student would get. To be competitive, even at 1-AA, this sort of financial aid is criticial. Colgate, btw, which is the same size as St Bonaventure, shows football expenses of about $4 Million a year.

One last note. Many of the expense items reported by colleges to the NCAA are meaningless because there are no clear accounting guidelines and schools are free to classify many expenses as general expenses rather than as athletic ones if they choose to do so. Also none of the NCAA numbers are audited in any way.

[treedoyle]

clubber said:

Wow, you go away for a couple of weeks and you end up missing all the fun. It's like being caught in a riptide, every time you get close to shore, treedoyle and B-real pull you right back out to sea.
Tree, what I find most embarrassing about your post is you told us that you actually worked in D-I athletics. Were you just careless or to lazy to pick up a phone and call someone at Marist, Duquesne, Iona, Valpo, St Peter's, Jacksonville, Davidson or any of the other schools out there that play non-scholarship football to find out what the expenses are.
Since you were to inept, here are real #'s compared with your ridicules post. Let's refresh peoples memory.

Treedoyle said Bonas would spend,
1)10 coaches @ $75,000= $750,000
2)Game day staff/maintenance 5 home games $50,000=250,000.
We only need to look at those two to show people you didn't do your homework.

Here is the Marist Football Expenses .
Expenses by Object of Expenditures.
Guarantees and options paid=$0
Salaries=$136,639
Salary Benefits=$29,536
Recruiting=$13,510
Team Travel=$80,304
Equipment, uniforms, supplies=$49,785
Officials=$10,774
Fund Raising=$3,604
Contract services=$10,906
Pre Season Camp=$10,000
Other=$12,171

TOTAL=$357,229 THANK YOU!

Transplanted, the recruiting #'s I gave are legit and only scratch the surface of how many new potential students SBU would be marketed to. We discussed Title IX in the past, not much more to say. But let me ask you a ?. Campbell College will start their program soon and will not add or drop any sports. Colorado St.-Pueblo just announced they are reinstating their football program that was dropped in 1983. They will also add wrestling and track/ field. So my ? to you, if 64 schools since 2000 have started programs why should it stop Bonas from starting a program?
You can go to other message boards like Seton Hall, Santa Clara, BU and Charlotte and see the same football discussion we have had here from time to time. If you are one who would like to see this topic end you need to talk those that pontificate. If they would end the unsubstantiated posts there wouldn't be a need to respond.
But B-Real expressed how much he loves this topic so why wait until June to get it going.

"Hi, is this the Marist athletics department? Great! My name is Tree Doyle and I'm doing some research to reply to some people on the Bonnies Bandwagon message board. Oh you've heard of it? Super! Well then you won't mind giving me some facts and figures about your finances for your non-scholarship football team!"

Kidding aside, I'm up for intelligent debate (read: leaving out the words "embarrassing", "inept", "lazy" and "ridicules").

I'll concede that my salary figure was on the high end, although I find it extremely hard to believe that the 10 football coaches at Marist make a combined $136,639.

According to CollegeSportsReport.com (not sure accuracy / www.dopke.com/Archives_Pages/Expenses/2005%20Football%20FCS/MAACteams2.htm), Marist's self-reported expenses in 2005 was $456,575. Not flagrantly off from your total, but I'm almost certain what that doesn't include -- and what you don't mention -- are the other finances involved.

- Do you want publicity? Need to add an SID. Say $25,000.
- If you're adding 80-plus players, you'll need another strength coach. Again, let's use $25,000.
- You don't want a bunch of 2.0 GPAs so time to add another counselor. You can probably go on the cheap here and get entry level, but let's go with another $25,000 to cover some tutoring, etc.
- Going to have a lot more injuries and treatment. Time to add another full-time trainer. And again, another $25,000.
- What about facility management? You need someone to maintain a Division I field year-round, and I doubt SBU has enough personnel on hand to just start maintaining a playing field and practice field, in addition to other duties. Let's go with another $25,000.
- Other things you'd add? Football secretaries; business office personnel; compliance office help; an equipment manager; additional fund-raising staff.

That's an additional $150,000 minimum. Add that to your figure and you're up to $500,000. Keep in mind there are things football absolutely needs that are not in the football-specific budget (see above: SID, secretaries, strength coach, etc.).

What about office space? Training room? Field house? Stadium?SBU doesn't have the existing infrastructure to support football and the initial funding would be rather large.

I'm am 100 percent in favor of improving upon the excellence of St. Bonaventure through all means necessary. It's simply my opinion that football is not a logical or reasonable solution. I've been wrong before and I could very well be wrong here.

I hope that's not "to ridicules".

[clubber]

jmct,
The #'s are from when I last worked in the league a couple of years ago. I new there would be an increase. The football budget of the school I worked at is still under $400,000. Even at $457,000 it is still less than "$750,000" for salaries alone and far from the "millions" that other people have said it would cost.
Comparing the expenditures of Colgate from the Patriot League is a different animal than what we are talking about. If it cost the school I worked at $4 million for football, believe me, the program would have been dropped a long time ago. Also, the players at my school got the same FA as any other student. I recently sent 2 players to Marist and they received a basic FA package, nothing additional for football.
The new stadium being built by Marist will be used by football, men's and women's soccer, M & W Lacrosse, Intramurals and club sports so I wouldn't identify that as a football expense.
If you want to give me an address to contact you off the board, I'll be more than happy to discuss the salaries and breakdown of a staff for you.

[clubber]

Tree, you can shave off much of the additional expenses you have mentioned. We only had 1 SID at our school, he got it done.
Football staff as part of their responsibilities would handle academics and strength training. Didn't have a football only secretary. We had the same amount of trainers as SBU has now but I'll give you that one, could possibly use an additional part timer. It's football not a Mash Unit.
You said you were late to this discussion so you have missed some things. Ron Z identified locker room space and a stadium as part of athletic facility needs. We have also talked about using a refurbished Bradner Stadium. That would cut down the start-up and maintenance costs greatly.
I don't find your opinion redicules, I respect that, but some of the #'s you have put out there are way off.

[koab]

Stadium? How about an all purpose field turf surface with some bleachers and some fencing? Cost would be similar to baseball field.