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Post by firstdev on May 4, 2016 14:04:15 GMT -5
Excluding the symbols of our Catholic faith and Franciscan heritage from the main meeting room in the new Ministries Center is contrary to every value we hold true as Catholics. Apparently those in the fort are now embarrassed to display Catholic symbols. Afraid they may be offensive to others? Apparently the folks at the fort are now so politically correct that displaying Catholic and Franciscan symbols at a Catholic university is labeled as offensive and non welcoming. Complete balderdash. What is next - a planned celebration of Roe vs. Wade? The symbols of Catholicism are offensive to no one. They are symbols of hope.
I looked on the Campus Ministries website and failed to see any scheduled remembrance of the Great Famine in Ireland in 1845 - 1850 which killed over 2 million Catholics or a remembrance of the Armenian Genocide of 1914-18 in which over 1.5 million Catholics were murdered. Must have been an oversight by Campus Ministries - right Sneakers?
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Post by sneakers on May 4, 2016 14:16:25 GMT -5
Right as always fd!
The Fiars and the other religous who have devoted their lives the the Cahtolic church and to St. Francis, as well as the Bona faithful that generously put up the money for this, should be ashamed that while desiging this new building they did not meet your religious requirements. Pathetic.
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Post by fan4ever on May 4, 2016 15:12:46 GMT -5
First Dev.....you are honestly coming across as someone with a bit of dementia. You are certainly entitled to your opinions but they are mostly glaringly unfactual...so much so that your posts devolve into rantings. Does this happen routinely in your personal interactions with others? If so, I seriously suggest that you speak with your physician and get checked out. I say this with genuine concern. Please...do yourself and those with whom you interact a favor and have your behavior professionally diagnosed and treated.
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Post by Saulius Dumbliauskas on May 4, 2016 15:24:23 GMT -5
If nothing else, you have to respect the passion.
Can't knock the hustle.
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Post by agoo on May 4, 2016 15:31:58 GMT -5
Excluding the symbols of our Catholic faith and Franciscan heritage from the main meeting room in the new Ministries Center is contrary to every value we hold true as Catholics. Apparently those in the fort are now embarrassed to display Catholic symbols. Afraid they may be offensive to others? Apparently the folks at the fort are now so politically correct that displaying Catholic and Franciscan symbols at a Catholic university is labeled as offensive and non welcoming. Complete balderdash. What is next - a planned celebration of Roe vs. Wade? The symbols of Catholicism are offensive to no one. They are symbols of hope. I looked on the Campus Ministries website and failed to see any scheduled remembrance of the Great Famine in Ireland in 1845 - 1850 which killed over 2 million Catholics or a remembrance of the Armenian Genocide of 1914-18 in which over 1.5 million Catholics were murdered. Must have been an oversight by Campus Ministries - right Sneakers? Could you identify a number of Catholic schools that are showing scheduled remembrances of the Great Famine and/or the Armenian Genocide through their campus ministry office? Per these stats, there are 226 Catholic colleges or universities in the United States. What percentage of them are holding remembrances of these events?
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Post by class70 on May 4, 2016 15:48:23 GMT -5
We get onto difficult ground when we get into these religious topics even though Bona is a Franciscan institution. We've all got an individual journey we travel. My family includes Catholics, mainline Protestant, evangelical Christians, Jews, agnostics, maybe some pagans as well if I were to closely interrogate my native Alaskan nephews on this subject. Bona was a great place for me to take a few steps in my own journey. I could have gone to an Ivy League school, but I wasn't looking for that nor do I regret the choice I made. I wouldn't keep making contributions if I didn't feel Bona was remaining true to its Franciscan mission. I'm satisfied that it is.
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Post by firstdev on May 4, 2016 16:23:13 GMT -5
Sneakers - So the answer then is no, SBU Campus Ministries did not commemorate the Great Irish Famine (An Gorta Mor in Irish) 1845-50 - Two million Catholics killed; or the Armenian Genocide - One and a half million Catholics murdered 1914-1918; or the Stalin assault on Ukrainian Catholics - Five million Catholics murdered in the period 1930-35. Wow!
Maybe just maybe Campus Ministries should allocate time to commemorate these events. Do you think?
Catholic and Franciscan symbols are completely appropriate in every building and meeting room on this campus, bar none. Either this is a Catholic institution or it isn't. Caving into to anti Catholic political correctness is not who we are. We need to be proud of our Catholic faith.
Really can't wait for the new administration to arrive. Hallelujah!
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Post by sony on May 4, 2016 16:25:46 GMT -5
... and just what was the initial topic of this thread?
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Post by fan4ever on May 4, 2016 17:56:55 GMT -5
Sneakers - So the answer then is no, SBU Campus Ministries did not commemorate the Great Irish Famine (An Gorta Mor in Irish) 1845-50 - Two million Catholics killed; or the Armenian Genocide - One and a half million Catholics murdered 1914-1918; or the Stalin assault on Ukrainian Catholics - Five million Catholics murdered in the period 1930-35. Wow! Maybe just maybe Campus Ministries should allocate time to commemorate these events. Do you think? Catholic and Franciscan symbols are completely appropriate in every building and meeting room on this campus, bar none. Either this is a Catholic institution or it isn't. Caving into to anti Catholic political correctness is not who we are. We need to be proud of our Catholic faith. Really can't wait for the new administration to arrive. Hallelujah! Ummmm...and the 6 million Jews murdered in the Holocaust? Should they not be commemorated?
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Post by thesocalkid on May 4, 2016 21:20:32 GMT -5
How about commemorating all those who unjustly had their lives taken.
NOW --- back to the " Presidential Search " topic, I don't think they would have to look hard, there are a few posters right here on the Bandwagon that would make a GREAT President of St Bonaventure University!
Go Bonnies
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Post by anotherjoe on May 4, 2016 21:49:55 GMT -5
Francis, lest we forget, was the guy who met the Sultan at Damietta. While the initial effort was to convert him to Christianity, Francis gave up that effort pretty quickly to focus on a peaceful co-existence during the time of the crusades and identified the Sultan as a man of strong faith. The Sultan was attempting to make peace with the crusaders who were coming with less positive intentions. Having a room on campus for persons of all faiths would be pretty well in line with our Franciscan traditions and very much following the example established by Saint Francis...and the one encouraged by the Pope who has taken his name. Additionally, with your obsession on focusing our recruiting efforts on parishes and catholic high schools, the numbers don't seem to indicate that students are coming from those locations. I'm not saying that we should abandon our Catholic Franciscan heritage, or not recruit from those places, but there are some interesting stats to consider. Check out these numbers.The number of students enrolled in Catholic colleges is going up, though it may be in the process of peaking with a very slow growth from 2010 to 2015. The number of students enrolled in Catholic secondary schools is rapidly declining with a near 30,000 drop over the last five years. If you're trying to recruit students, you should be seeking markets where they are...Catholic high schools are not one of them. The number of infants being baptized is also dropping rapidly with over 100k fewer in 2015 than 2010 and near 300k fewer than 2005. Opening new markets for recruitment of students is necessary in the changing landscape of college recruitment, particularly for Catholic colleges. All colleges are competing for the same students and Catholic colleges are finding their core demographic (Catholic kids) shrinking rapidly. Recruiting internationally presents challenges, but it also tends to bring in students who are paying the full rate out of pocket, which reduces demand for financial aid, while increasing its availability to other students. An international student paying $50,000 to attend and live on campus can off-set a student who can only afford to pay $15,000. If I could go on...investment in facilities is a major part of what makes colleges attractive to students. Better academic spaces, that prepare students for the work environment, will attract more students. Better housing will attract more students. Better dining spaces will attract more students. Better recreation spaces (Richter and the athletic spaces) will attract more students. For a tuition driven institution, which Bonaventure is, improving facilities will improve recruitment. The new business building is as much about improving student learning as it is about recruiting more students. No one is coming to college for a building like Plassmann, regardless of how strict or how loose our adherence to Catholic ideology is.
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Post by anotherjoe on May 4, 2016 21:51:52 GMT -5
Francis, lest we forget, was the guy who met the Sultan at Damietta. While the initial effort was to convert him to Christianity, Francis gave up that effort pretty quickly to focus on a peaceful co-existence during the time of the crusades and identified the Sultan as a man of strong faith. The Sultan was attempting to make peace with the crusaders who were coming with less positive intentions. Having a room on campus for persons of all faiths would be pretty well in line with our Franciscan traditions and very much following the example established by Saint Francis...and the one encouraged by the Pope who has taken his name. Additionally, with your obsession on focusing our recruiting efforts on parishes and catholic high schools, the numbers don't seem to indicate that students are coming from those locations. I'm not saying that we should abandon our Catholic Franciscan heritage, or not recruit from those places, but there are some interesting stats to consider. Check out these numbers.The number of students enrolled in Catholic colleges is going up, though it may be in the process of peaking with a very slow growth from 2010 to 2015. The number of students enrolled in Catholic secondary schools is rapidly declining with a near 30,000 drop over the last five years. If you're trying to recruit students, you should be seeking markets where they are...Catholic high schools are not one of them. The number of infants being baptized is also dropping rapidly with over 100k fewer in 2015 than 2010 and near 300k fewer than 2005. Opening new markets for recruitment of students is necessary in the changing landscape of college recruitment, particularly for Catholic colleges. All colleges are competing for the same students and Catholic colleges are finding their core demographic (Catholic kids) shrinking rapidly. Recruiting internationally presents challenges, but it also tends to bring in students who are paying the full rate out of pocket, which reduces demand for financial aid, while increasing its availability to other students. An international student paying $50,000 to attend and live on campus can off-set a student who can only afford to pay $15,000. If I could go on...investment in facilities is a major part of what makes colleges attractive to students. Better academic spaces, that prepare students for the work environment, will attract more students. Better housing will attract more students. Better dining spaces will attract more students. Better recreation spaces (Richter and the athletic spaces) will attract more students. For a tuition driven institution, which Bonaventure is, improving facilities will improve recruitment. The new business building is as much about improving student learning as it is about recruiting more students. No one is coming to college for a building like Plassmann, regardless of how strict or how loose our adherence to Catholic ideology is.
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Post by anotherjoe on May 4, 2016 21:58:38 GMT -5
My apologies about the double post. Trying to post from my phone and not very good at it.
I wanted add that the decline in the catholic high school numbers would be even greater if not for an influx of international students who go these schools all four years. The percentage of students who are Chinese is particularly high. The actual number of Catholic students attending high school is low. Still need to recruit well but we have to look at other opportunities to reach 500 a class.
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Post by firstdev on May 5, 2016 6:16:13 GMT -5
Yes, the Holocaust should commemorated by the Campus Ministries Center, along with the Irish Famine, the Armenian Genocide, and the Ukrainian Extermination under Stalin. Millions of Catholics were killed in these campaigns. By the way there were indeed six million Jews murdered by the the Nazi's in the period 1940 to 1945, and in addition there many more millions of Slavs, Roma, political prisoners, priests and nuns who were likewise murdered. All these events need to be commemorated by Campus Ministries...... we need a broader view.
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Post by firstdev on May 5, 2016 6:23:10 GMT -5
The decline numbers of Catholic high schools does not and should mean that we abandon or reduce or de-emphasize our natural recruiting base in the NE and MW. That base is and remains Catholic high schools AND Catholic communities of all types i.e.: parishes, cyo's, youth camps, public high schools, etc., etc. Recruiting in China and Brazil is really a non starter and again shows how removed from reality parts of this administration are. Concentrate your limited resources on your natural recruiting base not on a fanciful one shot. The history of this administration is marked with failed one shots, its best not to repeat the error.
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