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Post by DemBonnies on May 19, 2006 15:08:59 GMT -5
Dem-- I will ask again. How does moving to the MAAC help our program over the long haul? It gives us an opportunity to compete for an automatic NCAA bid that we don't have in the Atlantic-10 How does being the A-10 Basketball whipping boys help our program...oh that's right we get all these great recruits that we wouldn't if we were in the MAAC.
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Post by sneakers on May 19, 2006 15:20:19 GMT -5
I'mm not saying we are going to be at the top every year, but i think we can consistently be an average A-10 team. I'll take Average in the A-10 over being great in the MAAC for acouple years and then just average there too. Does the "average" A-10 team say win one or two games a year in their conference tourney, heck even one or two games every third year...we can't even accomplish that....and what makes you think we become average in the MAAC after a couple of years. Oleander...you set such lofty goals...let us aspire to being "average" in the A-10...problem is, we have miles to go before we get to that position. Dem I often agree with your posts and think you are generally a man of reason. However, I very much disagree with you on the points you've made in this thread. You seem to have created a "straw man" to argue against. Your straw man seems to have fallen asleep in 1971 and woke up in 2006 and thinks Bonas is a national collage basketball powerhouse. Nothing could be further from the truth about how the vast majority of us supporters feel. We all know that the program has been in the dumps for several years and that it generally was in the bottom half of the A-10 pack over the past 25 years. What I hear most people saying though is that we don't want to quit. We don't want to continuously whine about the recent years. Sure hurts to suck in the A-10 and get our asses kicked by 20+ points(especially in our house). There are obviously people on the Board in addition to you and Bonafide who can't take it any more and want to throw in the towel. However, many of us have faith that with some added talent and some luck we can return to a respectable program. Not a dominant program, but a respectable one. A program that can get into the NCAA tourney a couple times a decade. A program that can upset the "big boys" once in a while like we did to UConn at their house only a few years ago. That is enough for many of us, but if we can catch some lightening in a bottle again we could see a nice run that puts us back on the basketball map. Who knows? We've had such a run of bad luck I think we are due for some good luck soon. I do know, and we all know, that moving to the MAAC or the DIII takes away all of these possibilities. It would also kill attendance and kill any chance we have of becoming a respectable program again. Go Brown Indians!
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Post by DemBonnies on May 19, 2006 15:29:38 GMT -5
Sneakers...there's no straw man at this end....there is reality...even when we were supposedly up in the late '90's we would quickly get sent home from Philly or AC or wherever the tourney was being held.
In 2000 we got pasted by Temple in the Finals..sure we rebounded to scare the poop out of Kentucky but our record over the past 26 years in the A-10 proves year in year out we don't belong.
An occasional scare to the upper tier is a crazy basis to keep the more consistent whuppings coming.
I see our chances as good if not better to get the "occasional NCAA appearance" in the MAAC than I do in the A-10.
Just an opinion but it's mine.
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Post by sbu79 on May 19, 2006 15:34:55 GMT -5
[/quote]
...why when we get to the MAAC would a player choose us instead of manhattan, st. peters, canisius or niagara? [/quote]
There is no more reason to believe he would than to believe a comparable A-10 level kid would chose us over St. Joe's, Dayton, Xavier, et. al. We would have the same success in the MAAC as we do in the A-10.
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Post by brooklynbonnie on May 19, 2006 15:35:41 GMT -5
Dem-- I will ask again. How does moving to the MAAC help our program over the long haul? It gives us an opportunity to compete for an automatic NCAA bid that we don't have in the Atlantic-10 How does being the A-10 Basketball whipping boys help our program...oh that's right we get all these great recruits that we wouldn't if we were in the MAAC. Dem-- I gave you a list of the of the top players from Bonas over the years. Can you honestly come up with a program in the MAAC that stacks up with the type of players we have gotten over the years? And if yes, give it to me.
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Post by kcSBU03 on May 19, 2006 15:37:33 GMT -5
Dem, something i think you are forgetting though is what seeds do these MAAC teams get? Niagara had a great year 2 years ago and waltzed into the NCAA's. What did they get? a 14 seed and a pasting to Oklahoma. Even if we did get that occasional NCAA bid out of the MAAC, we wouldnt get any repsect for it and the best we could hope for would be a 13. Now i know we were a 12 in 2000 but look at the at large seeds for the A 10, usually in the 7-10 range. I'll take that mid level seed over the nearly impossible seed. i think sneakers nailed it perfectly. Generally i have agreed with your posts in the past but o well, at least it was an interesting day on the board.
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Post by jh on May 19, 2006 15:51:12 GMT -5
Dem I'm with Sneakers 100% on this..having met you and liked your posts for years......your negativity on this topic is shocking... A 2000 NCAA bid...a very competitive loss to KY.....we defeated both Dayton and St Joes on the way to that loss to temple in the A10 final.....a win over top ranked Temple in 2000...a 17 point win AT UConn (shocked if you were not there)......4 post season appearances in 5 years averaging 17 wins a year.....producing a 1st team A10 player every year...thats very competitive...thats not 25 years ago... Forget the MAAC...its a move DOWN...
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Post by sneakers on May 19, 2006 15:56:52 GMT -5
Sneakers...there's no straw man at this end....there is reality...even when we were supposedly up in the late '90's we would quickly get sent home from Philly or AC or wherever the tourney was being held. In 2000 we got pasted by Temple in the Finals..sure we rebounded to scare the poop out of Kentucky but our record over the past 26 years in the A-10 proves year in year out we don't belong. An occasional scare to the upper tier is a crazy basis to keep the more consistent whuppings coming. I see our chances as good if not better to get the "occasional NCAA appearance" in the MAAC than I do in the A-10. Just an opinion but it's mine. Got it. I disagree though. As fellow resident of Massachusetts, you might want to check out an interesting column by Bob Ryan on the front page of today's Boston Globe sports section. It discusses how BC is no longer playing Holy Cross in hoops starting next year even though they were traditional rivals. Not that SBU was ever as dominant as HC was in the middle of the last century, but HC whooped up on BC big time and consistently. HC won every game played between the two teams from 1945 through 1957 (21 games in all). HC was a national power and won a national championship in 1947 and won the NITs (when it meant something) in 1954. BC could have thrown in the towel after the 21st straight defeat. As we all know, however, the hoops traditions of these colleges then went in different directions. The Boston commuter school that was BC become an ACC basketball power. Holy Cross on the other hand went backward (still a respectable program but not a national power). Why? There are many reasons for this. I think much is attributable to the fact that BC thinks "big" and HC does not. Now, please don't jump allover me by saying I can't compare SBU with BC or HC since there are so many differences including the size of the schools, their academic reputations, the success of their athletic programs and the urban areas where they are located. I know this and there are a million other differences as well. However, I also think that if we decided to think "small" then small things will happen to us. If we think "big" than we have a chance to have big things happen to us. I'd rather think big. I can take the punishing losses if it means we have a chance to turn things around in the future. To go down to the MAAC or DIII would be the kiss of death for the program. I think we all know that deep down.
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Post by DemBonnies on May 19, 2006 18:15:47 GMT -5
I like to thank everyone for agreeing with me on all the post on this realignment of SBU to conference that they could be more competitive with. It was great feeling all your vitriolic support. Sneakers...I hope yours are dry. I know that your Ark must be close to free floating by now. I just think we've been kidding ourselves for many years and coupled with the cataclysmic events of recent years puts us even further removed from rejoining, even the middle of the A-10 pack. Heals---you may see it as negative...I see at realism. I saw many games that 2000 season including the Kentucky game and then the UConn game two years later. If you're content to wade through the mud for 4 to 5 relatively successful years every 25, while we are the pinata for the other 20 or so, I salute you. Sandwiched on either side of those 4-5 years is what? Stale bread? Those of you who really know me must also know that there was probably not a more ardent supporter of this program during the DeCarli/Chapman years which yielded no fruit and not a glimmer of hope. So I am branded negative when I say open your eyes and see what we really have, a faded broken down program that has 4 successful campaigns in the last 20 or so years and looks to be at best 2/3 years away from a .500 season. Is the MAAC a step down competitively from the A-10...show me where I've disputed this? I think our school, budget and skill assets more closely resemble a MAAC school than they do an A-10 school. I'd take a 13/14 seed in the NCAA from the MAAC position rather than wait for half the A-10 to get the bird flu epidemic to put us in the tourney as a 12 seed. And there is where our viewpoints diverge and I'm okay with that. It's good discussion but I have not seen one person able to defend a 6-23 record in seasons other than the two we were in the championship game for A-10 Tournament play. That's what seperates the men from the boys.
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Post by bva on May 19, 2006 20:28:42 GMT -5
Dem, So, you would have preferred to go .500+ in the A-10 Tourney, but never reach a championship game??? Plus, you can't throw out those Finals years. If you threw out URI's and UMASS' best years, doubt their record would be much different!!! Why would you not mind getting whupped in the NCAA Tourney, but do mind that occurring in the A-10 Tourney??? I think we save a lot more face under the latter scenario. And those years (if) we get to the NCAA Tourney put up a realistic challenge! Moreover, what do we get from the big A-10 boys by being their whupping boy??? $$$$$. If A-10 sends 4 teams to the Tourney, SBU gets a share of that pie: Question is whether that is more than the MAAC Tourney team receives after splitting revenues with their conference
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Post by DemBonnies on May 19, 2006 21:05:50 GMT -5
Dem, So, you would have preferred to go .500+ in the A-10 Tourney, but never reach a championship game??? Plus, you can't throw out those Finals years. If you threw out URI's and UMASS' best years, doubt their record would be much different!!! Where did I say anything about preferring to go .500 in the Tourney and forsake championship game and where does it say throw away the two championship games...all I'm doing is looking that the two times we were in the finals we were 3-1...that means that the other 20 years yielded only six wins...six wins is pathetic...it screams that we don't belong...this isn't that difficult a concept to comprehend. Why would you not mind getting whupped in the NCAA Tourney, but do mind that occurring in the A-10 Tourney??? I think we save a lot more face under the latter scenario. And those years (if) we get to the NCAA Tourney put up a realistic challenge! I feel like the AFLAC duck in the Yogi Berra commercial----Whhhhattt (shaking my head from side to side) Moreover, what do we get from the big A-10 boys by being their whupping boy??? $$$$$. If A-10 sends 4 teams to the Tourney, SBU gets a share of that pie: Question is whether that is more than the MAAC Tourney team receives after splitting revenues with their conference What a great concept....we get money as the lambs that are led to the slaughter. You're serious...you're okay with this?
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Post by hollywoodkek on May 19, 2006 21:49:10 GMT -5
I know that this post has gone more from the admissions standards towards Bonas switching from the A10 to the MAAC conference but I have something to say
I am a current sophomore @ Bonas and the admissions standards has been on my mind constantly. Like most of my fellow students I have thought about transfering, but I decided to try and hold through it. the thought of Bonas becoming SUNY Bonaventure or a CC is really scaring me. The campus doesnt do a good enough job reqruiting and most people I graduated from barily even know of the campus-- and Im from Rochester!!! I notice people in my classes.... just the requirements and the maturity and the academic backround of everyone is so low..... people in my Comp and Crit class that moan at a 2 page paper....or barily know basic grammar rules. At other campuses students would be begging for ONLY a 2 page paper, let alone moan at how long the assignment is.
Even though I love Bonas and the atmosphere around it, its just not the best academically, and my life after Bonas. Its great while I'm here, but what about after I leave? I have always considered Bonas better than Canisus and Niagara academically, socially and overall, but apparently thats not the case- the fact that its dropped from "Competitive" to "Less Competitive" is not good. It only appears to be a downward spiral I dont see us coming out of.
On my floor last year (3rd Rob), I know of 9 people who tranfered either out of at the Christmas break or at the end of this year! That is WAY too much. SOMETHING IS WRONG. Just to mention some of the colleges they are tranfereing to --- Canisus, Niagara, Sacred Heart (CT) and St. John Fisher in Rochester.
Im not sure if this post even makes sense, but Im just scared for the future of the university. Even though Ill stick it out and do the best I can with my SBU degree--- im scared for the future.
Or everyone can always keep with the attitude of: Its not the education you get, but what you do with it.
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Post by sburizz on May 19, 2006 21:51:43 GMT -5
Just to clarify I have stopped reading this post because it is just too long. Bottom line, I am a Bonnies fan no matter what conference they are in but I honestly believe that moving to the MAAC would be a mistake. Saying that we are at a disadvantage in the A-10 as a reason for moving down is not a good excuse because we would also be at a disadvantage in the MAAC as well. We need to weather the storm and wait til our team gets better. While we are slowly getting better we need to support the team and the school.
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Post by bonafide on May 20, 2006 5:45:10 GMT -5
It scares the hell out of me that a St. Bonaventure University sophomore doesn't know how to spell the word "barely."
Whew!
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Post by bonafide on May 20, 2006 6:20:57 GMT -5
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