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Post by jh on Mar 6, 2015 9:20:08 GMT -5
Another measurement of program - what did you do following your NCAA season and starters graduate?
Schmidt - does not qualify for A10 tournament
Baron - NIT bid and would have been NCAA had PVP not been injured That was a program with depth of talent The year after those players deliver Calhoun & UConn its biggest loss ever at home.
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Post by tastylicks on Mar 6, 2015 9:24:16 GMT -5
The Atlantic 10 title is the biggest accomplishment in school history since since the 1977 NIT title. That alone gives Schmidt the edge, but of course there's much more than that.
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Post by tomgleason on Mar 6, 2015 9:29:40 GMT -5
You know, I'm really tired of hearing about the coach at Canisius...we have a coach here that is raising the bar...A10 title, and as other have said...without the new rules regarding NIT selection,numerous NIT bids...I'll take Schmidt any day
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Post by jh on Mar 6, 2015 9:35:19 GMT -5
Tom - it seems you get tired of hearing when facts are put in front of you that disagree with what you wish to believe.
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Post by gdub2009 on Mar 6, 2015 9:38:35 GMT -5
I am only counting 3 NIT bids for Baron. So 4 postseason bids in 9 years
94-95 RPI:84 97-98 RPI:107 00-01 RPI:66
Schmidt would have 2 postseason bids in 7 years and you could make a case this year would also be one. So that would be 3 postseason bids in 8 years, which would be the same as Baron if you counted his first 8 years.
I am basing this on RPI
13-14 RPI: 93 NIT 14-15 RPT: Currently at 104
Baron and Schmidt are extremely comparable. The 2000 team is still my all-time favorite Bonnies team (bc I was born in the late 80s). I will agree with you on Baron brought in more talent in his 9 years. I think though the Toronto connection is going to be huge going forward with Robinson recruiting up there.
So ya you can make a case for Baron being better than Schmidt. The way I see it is they are about dead even at this point through 8 years. I give Schmidt the edge with the A10 tourney championship.
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Post by localfan on Mar 6, 2015 9:39:31 GMT -5
JH - I'll give the nod to Baron's staff any day of the week when it comes to recruiting. They were far better recruiters than this staff. No question about that.
However, you use that point to boost your argument, and you completely ignore the X's and O's side of it. Mark Schmidt can coach circles around Jim Baron on gameday. Circles. And I know and like both guys. But there is zero comparison from an X's and O's standpoint.
The overall record points to Schmidt for sure. Baron's good teams might have been better than Schmidt's good teams, but Schmidt has been far more consistent, especially in league play. No question that we had better players here in the Baron era. That being said, we've had better TEAMS (results wise) here in the Schmidt era, and that counts for something.
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Post by localfan on Mar 6, 2015 9:41:24 GMT -5
And just a general thought - Baron has one postseason victory total in his four appearances at Bonas. Schmidt is 0 for 2, but he has an A-10 Tournament championship, which pretty much negates Baron's NIT win, IMO.
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Post by jh on Mar 6, 2015 9:41:37 GMT -5
The biggest difference is the volume of talent that Baron and his staff were able to bring into the program - there really is no comparison on that. Baron's staff did most of their mining within 3 hours of the campus but did have foreign gets in PVP and Prato.
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Post by gdub2009 on Mar 6, 2015 9:44:01 GMT -5
Not even close at this point. The A10 is a big boy league now and the Bonnies are in the mix on a consistent basis, the recruiting is working, and they've made it to the top recently. Not sure I would say the A10 is a big boy league now. Look at the first season Baron coached. The Bonnies lost 10 straight games in a row to finish the season and still had an RPI of 139. Now that is impressive.
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Post by jh on Mar 6, 2015 9:47:46 GMT -5
And just a general thought - Baron has one postseason victory total in his four appearances at Bonas. Schmidt is 0 for 2, but he has an A-10 Tournament victory, which pretty much negates Baron's NIT win, IMO. Where is Schmidt 0-2?
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Post by tomgleason on Mar 6, 2015 9:48:10 GMT -5
Tom - it seems you get tired of hearing when facts are put in front of you that disagree with what you wish to believe. How is it ignoring facts when the rules for postseason bids have changed...the are fewer at large NIT slots now, it is a better (tougher) league overall (6 bids last year, along with a year of 5 and 4...beats 4, 4, and 5), the BEST player overall (Nicholson), based on draft and years in the Association...and your claim of better players, along with comparable records in a now tougher league...all adds up to giving the nod to Schmidt...
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Post by localfan on Mar 6, 2015 9:51:42 GMT -5
And just a general thought - Baron has one postseason victory total in his four appearances at Bonas. Schmidt is 0 for 2, but he has an A-10 Tournament victory, which pretty much negates Baron's NIT win, IMO. Where is Schmidt 0-2? He's 0-2 in postseason play. NCAA Tournament and CBI loss.
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Post by jh on Mar 6, 2015 9:57:19 GMT -5
He's 0-2 in postseason play. NCAA Tournament and CBI loss. I would hope post season is limited to NCAA or NIT where you are invited and dont have to pay for the invitation And you are correct - Baron had 3 (not 4 as I wrote) NIT bids
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Post by localfan on Mar 6, 2015 10:01:30 GMT -5
Postseason play is play beyond the regular season and conference tournament. I don't define that (or necessarily agree), but the NCAA defines it.
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Post by jh on Mar 6, 2015 10:04:52 GMT -5
Tom - it seems you get tired of hearing when facts are put in front of you that disagree with what you wish to believe. How is it ignoring facts when the rules for postseason bids have changed...the are fewer at large NIT slots now, it is a better (tougher) league overall (6 bids last year, along with a year of 5 and 4...beats 4, 4, and 5), the BEST player overall (Nicholson), based on draft and years in the Association...and your claim of better players, along with comparable records in a now tougher league...all adds up to giving the nod to Schmidt... The A10 of Baron era was top heavy with UMass & Temple having teams that often were top 10 in the nation - the road to an A10 championship was very difficult with those 2 powers in place. We dont have that at the top of the conference - but better depth
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